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| What to do with this? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34246 |
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| Author: | Harrison [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What to do with this? |
According to a guy over at FABO, this is not the stock engine in my 1963 Dodge Dart 270, and that it appears to be a mishmash of parts from different eras. What I'm wondering is should I stick with it, or should I look for one from 1963 and pay someone to drop it in for me?   
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| Author: | Reed [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If that motor runs good, leave it alone. Unless you are worried about having a numbers matching motor, the later years have slightly better technology than the early years with regards to combustion chamber design and camshaft profile. |
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| Author: | THOR [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:50 pm ] |
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Unless you are going for originality (which most people wouldnt realize the difference anyways), and the engine in there runs well, I say leave it alone. You will gain no benefit of having an early engine as opposed to the late engine. Is that an automatic or a 3 speed manual? If it's auto, I hope whoever dropped that engine in there put the spacer ring on the torque converter before stuffing it in the car. ~THOR~ |
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| Author: | Harrison [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Not really sure how well it runs anymore, the last time it was started was about 2 years ago. The battery is dead, and the radiator hoses are destroyed (as you can see), so even with a new battery I wouldn't be able to run it for long enough to check how it does. The last time it was really run was about a 3 mile ride from one house to another. It cut off going down a hill. From what I remember it would also shut off if you tried giving it gas before it warmed up all the way. I don't really know jack about cars (This is my first, I'm 16). This is mainly for me to learn from. It's an automatic. (Off topic: When posting this, I got an error "Couldn't retrieve common word list") |
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| Author: | Harrison [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Something else: Do I need to replace my radiator before I run it? It's missing one of the side frames. Where would I go to get replacement radiator hoses? I need every hose that went to it, even the little ones that went into the bottom of it. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Welcome on the board. This looks like a '70-'74 engine. If you clean the grease away from the top of the block (facing the sky) below the front spark plug, just inboard of the alternator/coil bracket, you'll find some stamped numbers. Something like "F225 4956". If you tell us those numbers, we can tell you more about this engine and where it came from. There's no reason to hunt down a '63 engine; assuming this one's in sound condition it'll do just fine. First thing, as quickly as you can, get these three books to get up to speed on how the car's built and how to work on it successfully and without wasting time, effort, or money. Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread, and the engine is probably overdue for a valve adjustment. The '63-type radiators cannot be bought new; see this thread. Radiator hoses are still parts store items. The "little ones that went into the bottom" of the radiator are transmission cooler lines. If you follow them rearward, you will see that one of them contains an inline filter. This filter is no longer available; see here for how to deal with it. As previously mentioned, it's important that you have the 1/8" adaptor ring between your (later than 1967) engine and your (earlier than 1968) transmission — otherwise the transmission's front pump bushing and seal will quickly wear out and leak. Unfortunately, this is no longer common knowledge, so many "latter day" engine swaps into pre-'68 Slant-6 cars go without the ring, and you can't tell if you've got it or not without dropping the trans or lifting the engine!  The ring can be had from Pat Blais, tflitepatty@verizon.net .
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| Author: | Red [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Replace the master cylinder! |
Once you get it "hosed" and running properly, make swapping in a dual-chamber brake master cylinder your next priority: those single-pot master cylinders are a disaster waiting to happen. (Don't ask how I know). ---Red |
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| Author: | Harrison [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:08 pm ] |
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@Dan: Those books seem useful, but holy crap, the factory service manual is expensive. Are those books and the tuneups you suggest complete beginner friendly? Or would I be better off paying the insane labor costs? How about the transmission pan replacement? I'd like to do as much myself to the car as possible, but really anything requiring complete removal of the car won't happen. I also have a lack of tools to work with, so I'll have to buy what I need as I go along. Also, your radiator link is busted. @Red: I need to rebuild the brakes as well. The front left wheel is seized up, and we think that it's the brake or the bearing (hopefully the brake). Thanks for the heads up on the master cylinder though, I'll do that too. |
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| Author: | dakight [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
You can easily pay for the cost of all three books with the labor charges of even a relatively minor repair. Also, it's not easy to find a mechanic that knows how to deal with cars of this era and your results are likely to be less than satisfactory. If your goal is to learn, then buy the books, especially the FSM, and dive it. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask questions. Also learn to use the search facility; there is a huge wealth of information available in the forums. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:51 pm ] |
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Quote: @Dan: Those books seem useful, but holy crap, the factory service manual is expensive.
Even if you have to pay full price, it will pay for itself the very first time you pick up a wrench and approach your car. There is no substitute. But you don't hafta pay full price. Hit eBay. Here's a CD for $29. Here's a paper one currently at $10 (hurry). Here's a '63 Plymouth/Valiant book that'd do you just fine except for very minor details, buy-it-now at $25. Here's another (nice) Dodge/Dart manual, $25. Quote: Are those books and the tuneups you suggest complete beginner friendly?
Once you have (and read) the books and some appropriate basic tools (as described in the books), the tune-up and other work will be beginner-friendly.Quote: Or would I be better off paying the insane labor costs?
No. Your car is 46 years old, and there aren't many people around who can do a good job on it. Paying high prices for "get it almost kind of sort of right" is not a good bargain — and all it would teach you is how to use your credit card, which you probably already know.Quote: How about the transmission pan replacement?
Complete cinch.Quote: Also, your radiator link is busted.
Right, sorry, here y'go.
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| Author: | Harrison [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I can't buy them right now, but once I get paid for working on this guys website, I'll try to grab the books. The radiator that's in the car now doesn't seem to bad, other than the half of the frame that my dad managed to lose. I'm guessing that I'm just going to have to buck up and start going to junkyards looking for one in good enough condition to get repaired/recored, unless my dad manages to find that side to it, right? Is there really no way to check that adapter ring without removing either the engine or transmission? That'll probably be a pain. What's that tube that's near the bottom of the block beneath the air filter? |
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| Author: | 75duster [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
that tube is for hot air off the exhaust manifold. when its cold outside, a thermostatic vacume valve in the aircleaner routes manifold vacume to round diaphram on top of the snorkel, lifting a air door that routes the air comeing into the filter from around the exhaust manifold. i can tell you from first hand experience this hot air is a driveability god send on a cold day, especially if there is considerable moisture in the air. there should be a hose connecting the exhaust to the bottom of the air cleaner, i believe most parts stores should carry this tube, it resembles a heater tube in form, but its made of metal iirc... worst case is you have to rob one from a junkyard. make sure the valve in the aircleaner works and if not you can get one from another aircleaner, the one on my duster had stopped working and i had to pull one off a v8 housing |
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| Author: | 75duster [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
also a question for the experts, how can you tell thats a later motor? and it may just be my eyes and the pics but that valve cover seems wider than the one on my peanut plug head... |
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| Author: | stephaniebrite77 [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Definitely not an expert, but the only way I could tell is that the engine seems to have more than three freeze plugs - the early engines only had 3, later had 5. Since you can see two before the middle of the motor, good bet there's another three hiding under the stacks. Harrison, I knew absolutely nothing about cars when I got my Dart - just that you turned the key and it started. I was cruising eBay one day (long before I found this site) and snagged a factory service manual, and used it to replace the front brake shoes, do a decent adjustment, and replace the front wheel bearings (learning to pack wheel bearings was fun.  ). About the radiator, I have an aftermarket on my '65 that works just fine (the original was busted hardcore), so there may be some options to look into as far as that goes. |
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| Author: | Harrison [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ah, so I was right about it missing a hose then. Seeing as you said it was for cold air driveability, I guess there isn't much reason for me to focus on getting it right away. It's seeming like it will be insanely hot this spring/summer, which is when I'm going to try to do the majority of the work on it. Another question, how do I go about removing the battery terminals? I've done it on a more modern car, but these lack the screws that hold the terminal on the cable. EDIT: Stephanie, where did you get your radiator at? An aftermarket might be more cost-effective than repairing and recoring. |
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