Slant Six Forum
https://slantsix.org/forum/

Keep Power steering, or go manual...
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34273		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Wesola78 [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Keep Power steering, or go manual...
This is something that I've been thinking about for awhile. This is on my '78 Volare, which has power steering. I have a manual steering box in my garage, plus a couple of bigger diameter steering wheels. The steering pump on her now is leaking, so I ordered a reman one from O'Reilly's. I went and looked at it, and it's kinda heavy. I already knew that the steering boxes were heavy.
Okay, I could save some weight, but steering column adapters from FirmFeel ain't cheap; $125.00!
So, it would be cheaper in the short-term to keep my Volare's power steering. I also have to admit that I really like my Grant steering wheel.
Hmmm... Decisions, decisions... :?
Any thoughts on this?
Author:  Shaker223 [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have the original steering shaft cut and welded with the appropriate length of stock put in. Any competent welder can do this for you.
Author:  THOR [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
I also vote manual steering. Less weight, less components to go bad... seems like a win-win to me.

What ratio is the manual box? You may be able to keep that Grant wheel if it is low enough.

~THOR~
Author:  Jopapa [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Have the original steering shaft cut and welded with the appropriate length of stock put in. Any competent welder can do this for you.
I thought of doing this, but decided to just spend the money on an adapter from Flaming River. Looks clean and has an integrated U-joint so no more coupler to have to rebuild.
Author:  Joshie225 [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Factory manual boxes are 24:1 which is really, really slow. I don't even like it for street driving. The roads around here are curvy enough it makes for a lot of wheel movement. I need to get on the ball and put my 20:1 worm and sector in the box. I had 16:1 manual in my road racing '66 Dart, but the extra effort makes parking a chore. On race tires you could not turn the steering wheel while sitting still.

Power steering weighs about 55lbs more than manual steering. The power ratio is 16:1 and you can use longer pitman and idler arms to make it about 12:1. This is what I have on my '72 Dart, but since the car is still apart I have yet to drive it.

My '01 2WD Dakota is 14.8:1 rack and pinion. Power rack and pinion is probably 1/2 the weight of the factory recirculating ball PS system.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
The liability and failure-potential issues with a cut and welded steering shaft make me shiver. If I were going to do this, the only way I'd accept it would be for the shaft to be cut, both ends drilled and tapped, a high-strength all-thread piece installed with high-grade Loctite, the junction welded, the weld ground down to shaft diameter, and a sleeve welded over the junction (weld bead at each end of the sleeve). Overkill? Yup, almost definitely. :shock:

As for power vs. nonpower: I like the 20:1 nonpower steering in my '62 Lancer with aluminum engine. I tolerate the 24:1 nonpower steering in my '71 Dart with iron engine. I hated the 16:1 nonpower steering in my '65 D'Valiant with aluminum engine, somewhat more than I'd disliked the power steering in the same car. I would hesitate to opt for nonpower steering in a heavy F-body like that. If it were my car, I'd fix the power steering according to my time and money budget: if I had the cash and didn't want to think about the steering box for a long time, I'd put in a nicely built box from Firm Feel or Steer and Gear. If I didn't have the cash and were willing to gamble on having to do it again, I'd swap in a used box.

I would not worry about the weight difference unless I were going racing.
Author:  Shaker223 [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The liability and failure-potential issues with a cut and welded steering shaft make me shiver. If I were going to do this, the only way I'd accept it would be for the shaft to be cut, both ends drilled and tapped, a high-strength all-thread piece installed with high-grade Loctite, the junction welded, the weld ground down to shaft diameter, and a sleeve welded over the junction (weld bead at each end of the sleeve).

Overkill? Yup, almost definitely. :shock:
Usually, the welded joint is stronger than the original material. There are many ways to perform this rather than purchasing an expensive part.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Overkill? Yup, almost definitely. :shock:
Usually, the welded joint is stronger than the original material.
Right, which is why welded stuff tends to break right next to the welded junction. It's words like "almost" and "usually" that make me lean heavily in favour of overkill on a safety-critical part.
Author:  66aCUDA [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:27 am ]
Post subject: 
I have a Metalurgist friend that explained it to me as "heat fatigue next to the weld" that causes it to break. Im with Dan on over kill on Steering and Brakes...I guess Ive had 1 too many failures in these componants.
Frank
Author:  Joshie225 [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
That area is called the HAZ or heat affected zone. If you want to swap to manual steering buy the nice adapter or a manual steering column. Your life, or the next owner's is worth the expense.
Author:  CARS [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Why not just search for a manual steering column to go with your box? No welding, no adapters, no issue!
Author:  slantfin [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would vote for a good used one over welded. BTW Joshie225 or others, if you want to trade that 16:1 manual box for a tight, never-adjusted cross shaft
24:1 unit. Send PM. I'm big and don't mind the hard steering. Sorry for threadjack.
Author:  MiDi [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
i have a FFI 20.1 manual box and i love it, i hate power steering in abodys.

i do have a decent power steering setup in my 78 d-150 and after replacing the pump and lines its a solid setup, w/ no leaks and its nice in a slant six truck.

i agree with dan on the cut and pasted steering shaft, no way in hell is that safe or practical. a used manual steering shaft is easy to come by and a very easy swap. keep in mind that you may (or will) have to change your pitman also for the manual box swap.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
keep in mind that you may (or will) have to change your pitman also for the manual box swap.
Mmm...don't think so! Definitely not the case on A-body cars, don't think it's the case on F/M-bodies either, but could be wrong.
Author:  MiDi [ Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The manual steering pitman arm is different from PS.
from bobbys post in parts wanted, and yes i have had to change pitmans when doing a pwr to manual box swap.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC-08:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/