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Loose front end and saggy spring
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Author:  cw6er [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Loose front end and saggy spring
The truck suddenly got a bit "swervey" or loose in the front end. ('81 Dodge D150 pickup)

I took a look and noticed the following:

The left front wheel has a bit too much camber that I don't remember noticing before, but when I checked the steering knuckles and bushings in the upper and lower wishbones everything seemed tight, and the camber eccentric bolts don't seem to have moved.

Now the truck has always seem to have had a bit of a "list" to the driver's side, so I measured the distance from the bottom wishbone to the cross member spring tower on both sides, and the left is lower by 3/4". Guess that is where the camber is coming from. i'll get an inspection mirror out tomorrow and make sure that the spring seats aren't distended or coming apart.

1) Any hot tips or cheap tricks, about what to do with a saggy spring? (No, I don't want to get a set of lowering springs and 20" rims :mrgreen: )

Checked the tie-rod ends and the center drag link and all of the ball joints seem tight. There did seem to be some play in the hydraulic steering box however. On my old doge van with manual steering, there was an adjustment to tighten up the thrust bearing at the end of the steering box.

2) Is there a way to adjust the steering box?

The wheel bearing on he left is a bit loose, so I will repack and adjust both front bearings tomorrow.
Author:  theomahamoparguy [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:54 am ]
Post subject: 
make sure the A-arms are not bent or cracked. I have seen early 80's P/U's with upper A-arms that have broken. {dont know why;severe abuse?} The Dodge pickup 72 to 87 [at least;maybe to 93] used a "GM" style of power steering box. Not very expensive at the local auto parts chain to replace.
Guess you could adjust it but I never liked to when they get real sloppy. Factory service manual should give you the procedure. BTW, the dodge vans actually used a Mopar steering box.
Author:  theomahamoparguy [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh, sorry I forgot to mention, you gotta replace those springs if they are sagging badly. If they are within 1/2 inch, then you could use a spacer to make up the difference in one of them. not sure where you would find one of those {maybe circle track stuff}. Maybe the salvage yard would be a good place to find some cheap springs. I know the dodge p/u used the same cab all the way to 93 so there are alot of them around.
Author:  cw6er [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
make sure the A-arms are not bent or cracked. I have seen early 80's P/U's with upper A-arms that have broken. {dont know why;severe abuse?}
OOPs! :shock: :shock:

Inspecting underneath, from the front of the truck, I didn't get this angle until I took the wheel off to repack the wheel bearings, I guess that is why the front end is a bit loose. It's barely attached!! theomahamoparguy hit it right on the head!

1) Anyone know what years used the same A-arms?

2) Is the bone yard the beat bet, or are there aftermarket sources if this is a fairly common problem?


<img src="http://bigcoupe.com/ims/pic.php?u=21GvpX2&i=381" border="0"></a>
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
73-93. I just replaced the upper on my dually. No matter what the wieght rating is. Mine came off a 1/2 ton.

Mine wasn't rusty, the UBJ tore itself out. :lol:
Author:  6shotvanner [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Check RockAuto,I know they list upper and lower A-arms for vans so I'll bet they have pickemup's. Dang good thing you decided to check it out real close that coulda been a real scary ride :o Good luck
Author:  cw6er [ Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
73-93. I just replaced the upper on my dually. No matter what the wieght rating is.
I take that to mean that all D150/D250/D350's from '73 to '91 used the same control arm? Great!

I tried RockAuto and others but none list controls arms for any of the models and years listed above.

Is a Press needed to install all of the bushings?

Has anyone heard of, or used a parts dealer by the name of "WSD4LESS" (Worldwide Suspension Distributor) on eBay?

They are selling both the right and left upper control arms with bushings for a $100! Could they possibly be any good?? The ball joints must be crapp at that price, or have they cut out the middle man and not taking a huge profit?

They do sell just the single arm without ball joints/bushings for $38, that might be better, this I can put in some decent ball joints/bushings, if the arm itself is any good.

Image

I did find a used one in the bone yard for $50, which I imagine, is half rusted through to match my other side :D (that reminds me, I do have to pull the other wheel and give it a good look :shock: ), so the cheap China import or the bone yard special!

(Oh yeah, the Dealer wants $220 to order one.)
Author:  RustyRamcharger [ Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Loose front end and saggy spring
Quote:
The truck suddenly got a bit "swervey" or loose in the front end. ('81 Dodge D150 pickup)

[snip]
2) Is there a way to adjust the steering box?
A recirculating ball steering gear is adjusted the same way, regardless of brand/model. Unlock and center the steering,then do the following:

1. Loosen the sector shaft locknut and back out the screw one turn. Turn the steering lock to lock and re-center.

2. Loosen the input shaft locknut

3. While rocking the steering column, tighten the input shaft adjuster plug. You will see axial movement of the input shaft disappear. When you achieve zero axial lash, tighten the locknut

4. Rock the input shaft, noting the backlash in the steering gear. Tighten the sector shaft adjuster 1/8 turn at a time while rocking the input shaft. At some point the backlash will be close to zero. Tighten the locknut. DO NOT adjust for zero backlash, or you will damage the steering gear (the ball rack will gouge the inside of the gear, and will bind)

5. Bridge across the gap between the housing and the Pitman arm with your finger. Rock the input shaft and verify that there is a small amount of backlash in the steering gear, and that there is no axial movement of the sector shaft. If there is radial movement of the sector shaft, its bearing(s) could be worn.

Note that with power steering, you will feel the spool valve spring when rocking the input shaft. It feels different from gear backlash. The spring will impart a sponginess, while backlash will feel and sound like a solid hit. Do not confuse the two.

Ken
:-)
Author:  Krooser [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
My D100 has a rusted out spring tower AND upper control arm. After looking at my D150 it, too, has a rusted out upper control arm...
Author:  cw6er [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I ordered the pair of A-arms above and replaced the bad side. When I get the other side done I'll post about them.

Ken, thanks for the reply, I haven't had a chance to try the adjustment yet. I found a bad tie-rod ball joint and I want to get both A-arms, the tie-rod end and an alignment done before I tackle it.
Author:  cw6er [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, I've finally got the Upper "A" arms installed, but I'm afraid I coined a few new swear words in doing so. The "cam" adjuster bolts were frozen and after copious amounts of penetrating oil and heat, only three cam loose, the fourth snapped off with rain and a cold snap on it's way! They want $20 for a new pair of cam bolts and they would have to be ordered, but the local salvage yard said I could have one if I came and striped it out, so I lucked out there.

As to the quality of the "A" arms, they seem to be, well, Ok. The gauge of the stamping seems to match the original, but the steering ball joint doesn't seem to be of the highest quality (kind of expected at $100/pair), but they are of the screw-in style, so a little easier to replace later. We'll see which lasts longer, the ball joints, the rest of the truck or my ownership! Remember, this is a weekend beater.

As to fit, the "A" arms seemed to be a bit too big to fit the frame brackets, but after a bit of persuasion with a hand sledge, they "popped" into place without permanently spreading the brackets.

The one thing that got me, was that the original steering ball joint has a 15/16" castellated nut and the new one came with a replacement self-locking nut since there was no hole in the new ball joint. i didn't think anything about it until I started assembly and realized that it was considerably larger than the original and my 1" socket was too small and my 1-1/8" too big and I started to suspect that it was metric! Turns out that it is metric, 27mm but that also matches 1-1/16". My guess is that they went an oversized 27mm that they could produce on their machining but would match an inch size for the US market?
Author:  cw6er [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Ken, I tried to follow your directions above but my steering box does not seem to have the adjusting screws you reference?

Is the "sector shaft locknut" on top, over the sector shaft? and the "input shaft locknut" on the opposite end of the input shaft?


Here is the view from the steering column or splined input end, also showing the splined selector shaft off to the left (orange cap, it normally points down when installed) and what is presumably the adjuster nut off to the right. However, this nut is on a threaded shaft and that shaft has no slot, hex or flats to turn it independently of the nut:

<img src="http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/product-info/en/US/atp/7530/image/8/">

In this view the input shaft is to the right and you can see that there is no adjuster nut on the opposite end to adjust the axial play out of the input shaft (again, the selector shaft has an orange cap, so this view is looking up from below):

<img src="http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/additional-prod-images/en/US/atp/7530/2/image/8/">

Anyone have any ideas?
Author:  RustyRamcharger [ Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Ken, I tried to follow your directions above but my steering box does not seem to have the adjusting screws you reference? Is the "sector shaft locknut" on top, over the sector shaft? and the "input shaft locknut" on the opposite end of the input shaft?
The sector shaft adjuster is opposite the orange cap. Its locknut is Nylock style (self locking), and is either 5/8" or 11/16" across the flats iirc. The adjusting screw has a hex socket in the end (turn it with an Allen wrench).
Quote:
Here is the view from the steering column or splined input end, also showing the splined selector shaft off to the left (orange cap, it normally points down when installed) and what is presumably the adjuster nut off to the right. However, this nut is on a threaded shaft and that shaft has no slot, hex or flats to turn it independently of the nut:
There has to be a way to turn the adjuster, either a hex or slot. Is the hex filled with dirt? Try digging it out with a small screwdriver.

The input adjuster locknut is the large stamped steel nut around the input shaft. The adjuster is turned with a face pin spanner wrench (note the 2 holes in the end of the adjuster plug).

Ken
:-)
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