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225 All Motor Build on 3K Budget - Any advice?
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Author:  davefriend [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  225 All Motor Build on 3K Budget - Any advice?
Well I just bought a 1963 Valiant 4DR with the 225 with a 3 speed Auto behind it.

Body is a 8/10. Engine runs great, but smokes like crazy. Well I am a mechanic and own a shop, this is my hobby car. Winter is coming and its going to be long, cold and slow.

I just got all the window and door seals and my buddy is a body man, so I am going to pull motor and transmission and let him work his magic on the body.

So now to the point of my post.

I want to build this 225, but I want to do it right. I looked at forced induction, seems a bit too exspensive. I looked at the Clifford Hyper Pak manifolds and exhaust set ups.

I would like to know what exactly I need to purchase, replace and what not. Can this motor be stroked, bored, to what with out compromising reliability? Its all original now, but I would like to get as much power/reliability as I can.

Gasket kits?
Piston/Rod set ups?
Use steel crank or are there other options?
What about lifters and such, any good replacement options?
Turbo kits?
What about a bottle kit?

Also, my friend at the machine shop, what kind of machine specs should I be giving him for added performance. He owes me favors.

Also when do I out grow that 3 speed? If that trans cant put the power down, what automatic options can i use with the push button set up? I really wanna keep it as stock looking as possible, that is until you open the hood ;) I would like to keep it clean looking, reliable but with respectable power.

My budget is about $3000 parts. Labor is free ;)
Author:  gmader [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/hpkits-chrysler.html

I bought an engine kit from them last year, and it was pretty good. They had a crappy timing chain, but I can't really think of any other issues that I had with them.
Author:  slantfin [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Welcome Friend Dave,
There was a post where everyone listed their builds, including what they hoped to accomplish, and what they did, maybe someone can post the link. I'll try to find it. OK got it: http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic ... ine+matrix
Probably start with exactly what you want the car to do. Your budget sounds reasonable. 'Labor is free.' Lol.
In general, you can deck the block, and plane the head a fair amount. Later cast crank is lighter, and OK for less than mega horsepower builds. Use the search option.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:40 am ]
Post subject: 
There is a lot you can do on a $3,00 budget, with free labor. Basically you need to spell out exactly your goals for the car. Daily driver, street strip, strip only? If daily driver, what type of driving (around town, highway/ percentage), is fuel milage a consideration? If street strip, how much track time.
Nothing wrong with the push button trans, I have one in my drag car, but I moved the PB unit to a console between the bucket seats.

PS: the cast crank is lighter but cannot be installed in your engine, without blowing your budget.

Are you sure you have a 225. Make sure as there were many 170 engines installed in those cars. You need to know for sure.
Author:  Dart270 [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:54 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree with the above. Lots of nice stuff can be done with $3000 of parts. I have several buildups that work for different applications, but as said above, we need to know a little more about usage, desired performance, etc...

Lou
Author:  davefriend [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Well Its not going to be a full strip car, and I will probally cruise in it 2-3 days max a week for maybe 20-25 miles.

So I would say. Street Strip. Fuel Mileage is of no concern. I just want it to roll out.

Has a 225, atleast air cleaner housing has the sticker. Where can I confirm size of engine? Is it stamped anywhere on block/head?
Author:  Krooser [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Well Its not going to be a full strip car, and I will probally cruise in it 2-3 days max a week for maybe 20-25 miles.

So I would say. Street Strip. Fuel Mileage is of no concern. I just want it to roll out.

Has a 225, atleast air cleaner housing has the sticker. Where can I confirm size of engine? Is it stamped anywhere on block/head?
Look at the bypass hose on the font of the engine... 170 is about 1" long... 225 about 3" due to a higher deck height.
Author:  hantayo13 [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
#s are stamped below 1 plug , behind alt bracket , on head deck
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Lou's master street/strip buildup
Oh yeah, are you including a high stall torque converter in your $3k budget? That should be high on your list.

Here's my advice. This buildup does not use any fancy high end parts, but can make your car pretty fast and reliable. Custom rods/pistons are really not necessary and your $$ is far better spent elsewhere.

A 2800-3000 RPM stall converter will really wake your car up, and will not compromise drivability in your application. Hurts mileage maybe 1-2 MPG, which you said you didn't care about. I've gotten 20+ MPG with a 3500 RPM converter, so it isn't bad.

Figure on spending $425-500 for a torque converter from Midwest or FTI or PTC. Ask for 2700-3000 stall in a 9.5" diameter.

I will assume you will try to run 15s in the 1/4 for this budget. 14s is possible, but will depend on your tuning prowess and parts combo.

For this budget, I would highly recommend spending ~ $1000 on the cylinder head (incl porting), since this is where most power is made. If you feel you can do a good job porting, then $500-600 of headwork will do. The most dependable head (performance and durability for a good price) will be built by Mike Jeffrey in Lexington, NE. Shipping a core to him is worth it. Figure $1100-1300 with shipping.

So, with the remaining $1400:

Get stock cast 0.060" over pistons (Enginetech or Silvolite) with moly rings ($100 or so total). Redo your stock 225 rods with good (ARP?) bolts. Have crank 0.010"/0.010" turned and all assembly balanced. Engine machining total ~ $400. M77 or similar bearings and gaskets - $120 total. Look at Doc's oil passage mods and checks. Reuse a good stock oil pump or rebuild one with a known good oil pump gear from Doc or an older pump. Mill head for 56 cc's and deck block 0.120" to achieve ~10:1 comp. We can talk about this more as you go. You'll need 0.15" shorter Smith Bros pushrods (< $100 shipped) Put a ~0.080" washer under the relief spring to bump up pressure to 55-65 psi at higher RPM.

Get an Offy or Clifford 4bbl intake with a Holley 500 2bbl carb (elec choke) ($500 total) and send stock cam for regrind from Oregoncams.com or Erson (about $100 w/ship and lifters). I just had Oregon Cams make me a 0.480" 234/228 deg (int/exh) cam that should really work well with 10:1 comp and the buildup I'm recommending.

We can talk cams if you want to go bigger.

For exhaust, you should go Dutra Duals ($300 + pipes) or Clifford shorty headers ($300 or so + pipes). Recurve dist and install Pertronix ignition if not already elec ign.

We are a bit over $3000, but some of this stuff is not directly engine parts. 14s are well doable with this setup and 15s should not be hard, assuming car weight does not get too much above stock Valiant wt.

Best,

Lou
Author:  davefriend [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Its a 225, out of a '66


Lou,

Thanks for all the info. This will be my first performance build, I have dont stock rebuilds, on a ton of 4 and 6 cyl toyota's. Looking forward to learning.

Thinking spend the money for engine work, internal and such, and add the bolt ons as I go. Thanks for all the lines. I just got a free engine, so now I have two, one in the valiant and another on a stand.

Going to start tearing into it end of November. Just need to figure out what I am going to do first with it.

What do you mean to curve the distributor? Just replace it with electric?
Author:  ceej [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Recurving a distributor involves changing how much mechanical advance is added, and at what engine speeds the curve occurs.

There is a governor that limits how far the mechanical advance comes in. There are two springs on the governor weights that can be changed to match the advance curve to the characteristics that you want the engine to have.

When changing to performance add ons and internals, using the engine for specific purposes, the advance curve can be adjusted for peak performance. There are also options for changing the vacuum advance characteristics for peak efficiency, and/or performance characteristics.

CJ
Author:  davefriend [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
The more I read through about building the motor, 10 1 compression sounds good, adding a bottle could give me that extra power when i want/need it.

How ever the turbo set ups I am reading about look interesting.
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