I have finally rounded up enough parts and knowledge to attempt my first engine build from the bottom up and would like your input and I will be as specific as possible about what I want the car to do. I am aiming for 200 rear wheel horsepower with good torque.The car must be streetable but can be a little high strung if necessary.The car must be able run on no more than super unleaded.The car must be reliable and fun.The car currently has a Hyper-Pak intake and I like it ALOT,so this must incorporate this particular intake.This car will not be driven daily but will be driven alot in the warmer months but not under temps of 50 degrees.
The car in question is a 60 Valiant V200 4dr with a warmed up 170 Hyper-Pak intake and 4spd o/d with an 8 1/4 rear equipped with 4.56 gears and currently runs 18.10 in the 1/4 and is fun to drive but would like a little more and the satisfaction of building my own engine.
I will list the specifics about the car and the parts that I have collected.

The car-60 Valiant,4spd o/d,4.56 rear gear(will change to 3.91) big bolt front disks from 80 Mirada,17 inch wheels,front sway bar,KYB shocks,set up for handling and spirited street driving with drag racing as a secondary consideration.

Parts that have been collected for hot street 225 build;

1.block-84 truck block
2.crank-84 truck
3.rods-84 truck
4.pistons-Silvolite .060 over stock highth
5.camshaft-the cam that I have on hand is a Erson 470 that has .465 lift,270 duration(222@.050).This an area where I need the input of experts as Im sure this cam will not support 200 rwhp so all suggestions are welcome.
6.cylinder head- I have several different heads to choose from,drool tube heads from 60 thru 72 and several peanut heads also.The head will be street ported by myself with the tuteledge of a very successful slant racer.
7.valves-Engine builder 1.70-1.44 stainless valves
8.valve springs-will be whatever the cam manufacterer suggests
9.oil pump-Doug Dutra prepped factory pump
10.Intake-Clifford Hyper-Pak reproduction with plenum divider and 1 inch spacer.
11.exaust-Dutra Dual front half with modifed rear half,2 inch pipes running into a 2 1/4 pipe to the muffler with 2 inch tail pipe,all mandrel bent pipe.This is the system currently installed on the car.
12.carb-currently running a modded Holley 8007 390 4 brl but would switch toa larger carb if neccesary but want to stay with a Holley.
13.ignition-currently have a recurved ei distributor with a MSD 6a box,this will remain but be recurved for the 225's different characteristics.
14.Compression ratio-will aim for 9.5 to 9.75 to 1
15.Oiling-will incorporate Doug Dutra's block mods to help oiling
16.timing chain-I have had good luck from stock replacement Dynagear and Cloyes chains and gears but want your suggestions.


I have as specific as possible but Im sure that I have left out somthing.I am looking forward to your suggestions and advice and as always I appreciate your comments and help.
Thankls
HyperValiant

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1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

My Hpak mill is similar to yours except I have the 280/270 Erson, and I'm running 10.3:1 static compression ratio... I looked at the 3.91 for the heavy duster and will be looking at getting 4.56's for it... (4.56 in OD is the same as a 3 speed with 3.23's...)...I'd see how it handles with the 4.56's before changing (my erson likes things above 2000 rpm...and 3.55's are fine, but it leaves the engine at street speeds just below the "honey spot" on the clock...).

You will find the late lighter crank will help wind things up quicker, make sure to spend a little extra time on the oiling ports and bearings as you will want to keep it all lubed when launching out at 5-6K...

I think it looks good...I can pull down 16.3 with a 3400 lb car with my combo...you shouldn't have a problem pulling in to the high 15's as your car is much lighter....

-D.Idiot

HyperValiant, if you do reach your target of 200 rwhp I'd say you'll be looking at a mid to low 14 sec 1/4 mile time, if everything goes to plan.

My Valiant only has about 170 rwhp and I run mid 15's. The good thing about the early Valiants is they're light

The only thing I'd change on your build specs list is number 16. I'd use a dual row timing chain. Like a Rollmaster. But that's just my opinion.

Sounds like it's going to be a fun car, do you have any pics to share?

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62 Valiant, 225cid Slant 6/PB 904 with lots of good bits

http://www.moparmarket.com/readersrides ... user=SV162

Hyper,

Be advised that 200 RWHP is about what my '64 Dart is making, maybe a bit less. If you want to run that compression, you will need a good head and well matched cam. If you want to run 15s, then that is easier, and that is what most people mean when they say they want 200 RWHP.

The combo you describe (that cam/head) will likely run in the 15s somewhere if things are done right, and will likely make something like 160-180 RWHP. Go for upper end of your comp range. Use the '84 hydro head. Mike says better core shift than older ones.

After getting Mike J to build me a head with the engnbldr valves, I believe they may not be the greatest choice for a 0.060" over (or more) motor. He felt their shape and stem diam were not worth the $$ savings. However, he did "spec" 255 HP possible with that head if everything else was matched properly. However, they are very cheap, and it's probably good to use them for your first hi perf head and see what you get.

With that compression, I would get at least a cam as big as the 234/228 @ 0.050" cam I designed for 9.0-10:1 comp. Curiously, I then found that Oregon had that exact profile on hand and I had one ground by them (106 LSA, 0.480" lift). I will install mine at 99-101 deg centerline. Haven't tried yet...

If $$ is an issue at all, then the stock type silent roller chains are fine. I saw no detectable change in HP with or w/o one. My fastest runs in the '64 in the late 90s (low 14s) were with a stock chain. It did wear faster with the stiff valve springs, so I replaced it with a roller around 40k miles. Takes quite a few years to put 40k miles on these cars these days.

I am building a cast crank motor now, and am interested to see how it works. I see no downsides so far, as many people have made high HP with these parts.

Happy to discuss more later...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Thanks for the replys.I was hoping that DI would chime in as he is also running a H-P manifold.The cam and head are my main concern.Lou,I spoke with Mike J on the phone Monday and he also voiced his concern about the valves but said that they would work O.K. for my build.Mike actually talked me into doing the head myself and gave some great advice on porting and what to remove as well as what not to remove.
Would it be better to lower my expectations to 175-180 rwhp? Mid or high 15's would be fine but my main concern would be a fun street car to wring out on the local mountain roads.
Lou,do you have a grind no.for that cam and would you change anything in grind for the long runner intake.Mike actally suggested a cam in the range 240@.050 but didnt mention any specific lift no.'s. I have several good cam cores including hydro cams.can a hydro cam be reground to solid specs.
Also as far as the car being light,not so much anymore as I added front disks,sway bar,full cast iron 4spd,frame connectors,8 1/4 rear and a host of sheet metal body mods so it isnt as light as it was when it was born.Im guessing 3200-3300 with my big ass installed.
Keep the suggestions coming as this will determine what I do and want to do this right.
Thanks
HyperValiant

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1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

Yes, you can go bigger on cam and you may get a few extra HP. Don't think you can regrind a hyd cam as a solid, no. Grind number is 346 that I mentioned.

Brian Mimken and I had a long talk with the Oregon sheets in front of us and also came up with this:

Lobe #1628 Intake - 243 @ 0.050", 0.480" lift
Lobe #144 Exhaust - 238 " , 0.435" lift

Use with 105 deg LSA and centerline at 100 deg. Only think we couldn't find was a higher exh lift, but I don't think that will make much difference.

Mike could not find springs other than Mopar 340 equivalents to work with the engnbldr valves. Valves are not very long and 3/8" stem limits retainer choices. This limits max lift to about 0.480" without cutting down into the head, which could get you another 0.030" or so.

COMP would undoubtedly have more selection, but more expensive too.

Not saying you can't do 200 RWHP, but hard to say exactly w/o head flows and a good tuneup.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

Thanks Lou,Im going to contact Oregon cams this week somtime.As far as cutting the spring seats,is there any issues with doing this other than added expense.
Thanks
HyperValiant

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1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

I have 197 rear wheel hp,I used engine builder valves and Harley Davidson XR 750 springs,Erson 270/280 cam,stock .60 pistons,rods and valve train.Compression is 10.7 which is a bit high for a street driven car,my light pinging opinion,Guzzi Mark

Thanks for your input, Pinging Mark. H-D springs - cool!

You can cut down the spring seats, but it's not clear how much material is there. Too much and it'll weaken that area and stiff springs might...? I can't imagine 0.030" is too much, but I'm not sure if this has been explored.

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988

H-D springs!! Thats interesting as I know several Harley guys.What mods did you do to run those springs?
I have noticed that alot of guys run the Erson 270/280 cam,what are the specs on your cam and what is the minimum comp.ratio that can be run with that cam?
Thanks
HyperValiant

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1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

no mods to the springs at all,I would think 9.5 compression would be about perfect for a street car on pump premium,with this combo,dont have my cam card handy.Its erson 270 280 rdp?Guzzi Mark

The spring seat thickness is about 0.150 on a 169 head.I thought about this myself to run longer springs.I have a junk 169 head that "lost a fight"with a 3 foot cut-off saw down at work.You might be OK going 0.030-0.050,but,you risk hitting a thin spot or porosity

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V8?? We don't need no stink'n V8!!

Sorry about not replying to this thread sooner but life just threw me a huge curve ball and havnt mentally felt like being on the computer.
Lou,I spoke to Ken at Oregon cams about the 1628 lobe and 144 lobe and he said that he could put more lift on the 144 lobe,would you leave it alone or go for more lift.Ken also suggested a 108 or 106 LSA as opposed to the 105.What are your thoughts on this?
Also, once again,I would like to thank everyone for their replys and thoughts on this particular build.
HyperValiant

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1960 Hyper-Pac Valiant(rolling test-bed)
1963 Valiant V2OO(Son's summer project,- he just turned 15 )
1972 Valiant 4dr(Daughter Kelly's repair in progress)
1974 Valiant (v8) daughter Kelly's work in progress

My car is about the same weight as yours. My CR is about 9.5 and I run the Erson 280/270 cam on 87 octane fuel. I used chev 1.72/1.50 valves and stockish chev springs .

Glad to hear your stepping up.....I always liked your build plan.

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Yeah....Im the one who destroyed this rare, vintage automobile.....

HyperV,

That is interesting he can do more lift on that lobe... I would say have him match the lift of the INT lobe, or maybe 0.020" less. 105 LSA is where my calcs and polling of racers says power is best for a NA 225, but 106 works as well and likely 108 is fine. The 225 can handle more overlap than most motors. Let me know how you end up.

Hope everything is OK at home...

Lou

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Home of Slant6-powered fun machines since 1988