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Oil surface depth in pan
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38137		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Oil surface depth in pan
I was working this morning and imported the cross sectional view that Willen Weertman published. After a scale correction, using the 73 Dart 225 pan witness marks, and the 1" increase in OD from the 170, the average height of the swept path of the counterweights over the oil surface is 1.525". I say average because this does not reflect the tilt of the pan. I am also assuming that the sump well volume and contour are the same between the 170 pan and this particular 225 pan.

If this is of interest to you then you might want to jot it down.
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Kevin,

Is that with 4 quarts in the pan or 4.5 or 5? for 1.5" the distance.
What happens to the level once the oil pump starts pumping?
How much would you say is running through the oil passages?
1/2 a quart? or a quart?
I am wondering how much might be left in the sump once the engine is running?
Author:  james longhurst [ Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Kevin,

Is that with 4 quarts in the pan or 4.5 or 5? for 1.5" the distance.
What happens to the level once the oil pump starts pumping?
How much would you say is running through the oil passages?
1/2 a quart? or a quart?
I am wondering how much might be left in the sump once the engine is running?
I was thinking the same thing reading another thread recently. Moreover, I wondered if the oil could get picked up by the crank on it's return into the crankcase, what would be the effect if any.

-James
Author:  Doctor Dodge [ Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil surface depth in pan
Quote:
... I am also assuming that the sump well volume and contour are the same between the 170 pan and this particular 225 pan...
170, 198 & 225 oil pans will be the same for a particular chassis.
All the different oil pans you find are made to fit the different chassis Mopar installed the SL6 into.
Said a different way, the same SL6 oil pan would be used in a 1964 Dart if it had a 170 or a 225. (or even a 198 SL6 but those were not available until 1970)

Keep us posted as you develop design(s) off the 73 pan you now have but as an FYI, the most difficult SL6 pan to work with from an oil management stand-point, is the 60 - 66 A-Body oil pan. May-be you can borrow one of those from someone. (yes, those are getting hard to find in the wrecking yards these days)
DD

Image
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Kevin,

Is that with 4 quarts in the pan or 4.5 or 5? for 1.5" the distance.
What happens to the level once the oil pump starts pumping?
How much would you say is running through the oil passages?
1/2 a quart? or a quart?
I am wondering how much might be left in the sump once the engine is running?
That is with two quarts sitting in the sump well so this is the running level -- with no acceleration forces on the oil. I think up to that point the progress up the dip stick is nearly linear. Right after this there is a point of inflection or change because the incremental volume for oil to fill expands dramatically -- greater surface area versus volume ratio. This also means you should double check the accuracy of your dipstick markings carefully. I think it would be worth the time -- for a racer at least -- to mark the progress up the stick in .25 or .5 quart increments.
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oil surface depth in pan
Quote:
Quote:
... I am also assuming that the sump well volume and contour are the same between the 170 pan and this particular 225 pan...
170, 198 & 225 oil pans will be the same for a particular chassis.
All the different oil pans you find are made to fit the different chassis Mopar installed the SL6 into.
Said a different way, the same SL6 oil pan would be used in a 1964 Dart if it had a 170 or a 225. (or even a 198 SL6 but those were not available until 1970)

Keep us posted as you develop design(s) off the 73 pan you now have but as an FYI, the most difficult SL6 pan to work with from an oil management stand-point, is the 60 - 66 A-Body oil pan. May-be you can borrow one of those from someone. (yes, those are getting hard to find in the wrecking yards these days)
DD

Image
I remember Charlie mentioning the early pans being a hassle. The one I have here looks most similar to the middle one in the right hand column. It is hard to tell for sure because of the rust but I think it is stamped 265 or perhaps 266.
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I was thinking the same thing reading another thread recently. Moreover, I wondered if the oil could get picked up by the crank on it's return into the crankcase, what would be the effect if any.

-James
Yes, it certainly is picked up. A pressure differential forms around the rotating assembly at higher rpms that draws oil into it. This cloud will form irrespective of a windage tray being present. What you can do is perturb the equilibrium levels. You also want to reduce the average time any particular drop in the cloud stays circulating.

When Ed Peters (retired Chrysler engineer) did the dyno testing on the SRT4 parts the bouncing of oil off of smooth surfaces was a biggee.

Off topic a bit but interesting: One team that was developing a dry sump pan for a V8 made some flow errors. At about 5k it would rapidly suck dry the 20 quart tank. Hard to believe that much oil was moving around the crankcase, eh? This was on a dyno stand so disaster was averted.
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