Has anyone ever tried this set up on E-bay??
http://stores.ebay.com/Scarebird-Classi ... s_Plymouth
They use late model parts and stock 14" rims will work, they say.

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61' Lancer 4 door shaved .200 ported polished,Balanced, Hyper-pak ,Headers,dual 2.5", 4 speed, 3.23 posi 8 3/4",205 70

Seen that before but don't know anyone who's used it. I'm personally going to a bbp disk upgrade after the first of the year. If the donor car weren't so close and available I might consider that kit. Chevy celebrity calipers though... Redrilled Previa rotors... I wonder how well It would really stop and whether they gave any thought to M/C bore vs wheel cyl. bore ratio.

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72 dart acquired 12/08 /6,holley2b, mopar perf intake, mopar perf header, cam, built motor,904 finally re-installed, 8.75....still needs sorting out.
99 dakota 318 5 speed reg cab picked up 9/09; Trans finally fixed! woohoo!

I haven't used the Scarebird conversion, but I have yet to read any bad reviews of it. It uses common, inexpensive components and is surely much superior to drum brakes. Do a search on here and on the other boards (e.g., forabodiesonly) on the word scarebird and see what comes up for you.

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一期一会
Too many people who were born on third base actually believe they've hit a triple.

I installed the Scarebird conversion kit on both my 65 SL6 Dart & my daughter's 65 SL6 Dart with the original spindles.

Big positive: uses brake parts available at NAPA which are relatively inexpensive

Hurdles:
14 x 4.5 wheels hit calipers
Wheel no longer rests on hub flat, it loads wheel studs (rotor took up the space where the wheel use to be). Note hubs are tapered from the outer bearing to the inner bearing except for a small flat where the wheel normally rests

Modifications involving machining the hub and adding tapered bushing & wheel spacer solve the hurdles. Added cost was $100. Car looks stock after your done.

I have 20 pictures documenting the extra machining & installation available if you PM me & provide an email address.

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

I have their rear disc setup on my (wrecked) Swinger. The installation was pretty straightforward, except the calipers are located so the leaf spring is in the way of the caliper bolt making service difficult. The plates were well made and had quality welds. While I initially questioned the "parts bin" engineering of the setup, I was pleasantly surprised at how well everything went together and worked in the end.

-James

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Is that why they say will not work on an A Body unless the springs are moved in at least 3/4 of an inch?

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65 Dart station wagon slant 6 - now under construction
47 Dodge Custom 4 Door sedan
87 D100 Short Bed slant 6

Retired USAF 1966-1986
Retired US Postal Service 2004-2014

That may be. I don't recall anything in their paperwork or on their site back then (still nothing there about that.) The install was about 4 years ago and I remember thinking if only the brackets were clocked a little (@3/4"?) higher the problem would be solved. Maybe this was a compromise to use the caprice hoses they speced out.

-James

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Why all the extra work? Don't late model cars often pinch the rotor inbetween the wheel and hub? I thought that was an upgrade that made the hub a servicable part instead of garbage after a couple turnings of the rotor on a lathe.

I used the scarebird kit on a 72 dart demon with 10" drums. The supplied parts (due to lazercutting tolerances I think) needed a little clearance from a file here and there but no big deal. There was a ring to make up the difference for the bigger center hole in the rotor to center it, and a caliper bracket that bolts to the knuckle. Unless you have wheelwell problems with big tires why does it matter that your wheel is pushed out the thickness of the rotor's bolt pattern face?

Maybe your kit was different from mine? Mine was for -'72 abody w/ 10" front drums to '90 chevy celebrity rotors and calipers. It isn't a big fancy brake kit diameter wise but it stops straighter and with less maintenance now. It is always works a little better than when the drums were perfect.

Kevin

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madam im adam

Consider the following
1) In 1965 the factory used 7/16 lugs with wheels resting on the hub not hanging off the lugs(lug shear & bending load eliminated, lugs only in tension).
2)Aftermarket wheels may have oversize openings....they furnish hub rings to fill in the gap to the hub.
3)What happens when the wheel is moved further out on the 7/16 lug as far as the bending moment applied to the stud from the shear load. What if the bending moment is applied cyclically?

I feel the extra work is not extra work but gets me back to the factory strength and safety originally in the car.

Has anyone tested the load capacity, especially fatigue loading for wheels resting on 7/16 studs extended away from the hub flange for a 3200 lbs car?

I'd recommend the original strength for a car that's seen 45 years of wear as a minimum.

Changing to 1/2 studs with a full 4.5 inch bolt pattern would increase strength stubstantial for lug shear & cyclic bending moment.

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

I am not in a hurry to put 1" spacers behind my wheels, or trust my life to cheesy adaptors. Your points seem well reasoned. I am not an engineer but I believe the studs have to get weaker the farther the shearing force is applied from the press fit shoulder in the hub. I also believe the tire will lose it's bead or otherwise fail before the studs fail.

It can't hurt to be safe but I think it's silly to worry about the pinched rotor. If the lugs are properly torqued I believe other parts in the suspension will always fail first. Even in accidents severely mangled wheels are often still securely attached.

Please don't take this as a personal attack- just bench racing! or maybe bench stopping!

Kevin [/code]

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madam im adam

5mm spacer
rough cast hub cleaned & built up to wheel inside diameter using machined 316 Stainless Steel bushing press fit to hub to eliminate the lug shear caused by vehicle dead & cycling impact loads

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/

If you have the tools and time.

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madam im adam

I'm a little lost in the discussion and want to understand the shear issue. Currently I'm in the middle of a conversion to BBP and disk brakes. As I acquire 14" poverty wheels as a temporary measure, I notice that some have a completely flat bolt circle, while others have raised/pinched metal between the lug bolt holes.

Is the bolt circle flatness, or lack thereof, the cause of the increase shear or is it the possiblilty that the lug studs do not pull the wheel completely flush to the hub of the Scarebird conversion without a spacer of some sort?

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You can't fix stupid. - Ron White

Valid point concerning variations that impact the ability to tighten the wheel snuggly against the disc or drum.

Nuts can bottom out on the drum or disc before they snug the wheel tightly against the drum or disc caused by wheel lug holes opening up excessively over time.

My 68 Dart developed this problem after multiple tire rotations over a period of 350,000 miles. I put on new poverty rims to correct the problem.

As the holes wear (during the act of tightening and loosening) & enlarge the nut gets closer to bottoming out. When it does, even if properly torqued, the wheel is loose.

Lug shear develops if the wheel exhibits differential movement relative to the hub.

If the wheel bears against the hub:
1)as in the factory installation or
2)when aftermarket wheels use hub bushing fitted properly to the hub & wheel
then its difficult to develop a dead & impact load lug shear by the vertical momentum of the car, even if the wheel has developed a looseness.
However the rotationally developed shear caused during braking could cause increased shear on the lugs if the wheel is loose.

The Scarebid conversion places a rotor on the hub where the wheel use to be. The rotor is actually spacer pushing the wheel off the hub flat and out over the tapered portion of the hub. The wheel cannot directly load the hub from this location. The wheel then needs to rely on friction between it & the disc to indirectly carry the load to the hub if you do not provide a hub bushing. I added the hub bushing to their kit to back to loading the hub directly.

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1965 Dart 110k, 225, Carter BBD Super Six, 2 1/4 single exh., sbp manual scarebird front disc, 7 1/4 rear 2.94 sure grip, 14 x 4.5 OEM wheels, 833 OD with hyd. throwout bearing, HEI, electric fan, ram air/heated air, Accusump. http://plymouthcarclub.com/