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4, or 5 speed column shift?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38432		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Christian Nelson [ Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  4, or 5 speed column shift?
Sorry if this has been asked before.

I have a 74 Valiant, 225 slant six. I had a plan to install a 4 speed a few years back. I was just a teenager, and when I realized I had to cut the cross member, I didn't go through with it. I wish I had hung on to the tranny, and bell housing, and all the work I did to convert it form auto. I was all the way to putting the tranny in, and realized the linkage wouldn't work.

Anyhow, I converted it back to automatic, and put ANOTHER junkyard 727 in it. I went two blocks before the stupid thing puked fluid from the front seal. Knowing what I know now, I should have checked the pump bearing when I replaced the front seal.

Stupid car ate transmissions like I have never seen before. I installed 4 on that car, then I bought the 3 speed with OD to solve that issue. But that got stymied.

I was disgusted with the whole thing, so I parked the car in about 1994, had bought a 318 with another tranny, was figuring on swapping the whole thing out.

Now, thinking about what to do with my old Valiant (it was my first car, and I will keep it til I die) I want to revive it with the slant six in it. I don't really wanna cut up the floor, but I DO want to put a 4 or 5 speed in it, and do a fuel injection mod on it.

My question here is, ha anyone been able to modify a column shift to work with a 4 or 5 speed setup? I know alot of newer cars use cables to shift, instead of rods, could there be a way of setting this up without cutting up the floor with cables, and doing a column shift, or at least not cutting up as much of the floor?

I was thinking of buying an older S-10 pickup (I've seen them on CL for about $150) with a V6/5 speed and using those parts to work on the valiant.

Looks like I will nee a bell housing, I figure I could pick up a chrysler unit, like I had before, and redrilling the back of it to fit the tranny, and then what, I have to extend the input shaft?

I wish I had kept the parts from before, this would be easier if I could just put that old 3 speed with OD back in.

So, what advice do y'all have for me? I want to keep the bench seat if I can, never liked buckets much (I am weird, yes) Go with an all MOPAR solution, by finding an old truck or van with the 3 speed with OD, and yank that for it, or buy an S-10, to yank the tranny and EFI? Can I modify a 3 speed column shift set up to work with a 4 speed, by using cables? Any ideas there for a column shift?

I love column shifting sticks, but I want OD.

How can I get all the things I want here on a budget?
Author:  fzmax [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:25 am ]
Post subject: 
You could use an OD 833 with the column shifter for the four forward gears and make a separate linkage for reverse. A T5 from an S10 is going to require a hole in the floor for the shifter, but you wouldn't need to add the offset hump like a standard four speed.
Author:  adiffrentcity [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
You could use an OD 833 with the column shifter for the four forward gears and make a separate linkage for reverse.
Doc outlines how he did this exact thing somewhere in the four-speed article. Even he said it was kinda sketchy and not worth the effort.
Author:  runvs_826 [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Think long and hard about EFI before jumping into it. It's a project not an easy bolt on fix.
The Chevy T5 are to short so plan around extending the input shaft.
Author:  bigslant6fan [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you went through 4 automatic trans in the car,You must have overlooked something VERY wrong,like the kick-down linkage,or plugged up trans cooler. :shock:
Author:  Doc [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
You could use an OD 833 with the column shifter for the four forward gears and make a separate linkage for reverse.
Doc outlines how he did this exact thing somewhere in the four-speed article. Even he said it was kinda sketchy and not worth the effort.
The major problem with this set-up is the column shifter itself, they have a long throw and have "light duty" plastic bushing inside, that wear-out quickly.
DD
Author:  adiffrentcity [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Image I though you made a comment about being scared of the seperately mounted reverse shifter. :oops: I know I would be.

I guess if you were dedicated enough, throw distance could be altered as well as scrounging a new shifter bushing.
Author:  Doc [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Image I though you made a comment about being scared of the seperately mounted reverse shifter. :oops: I know I would be...
That is also an issue but long-term, it is the "crappy" construction of the column shift linkage that makes this conversion hard to live with.
DD
Author:  Christian Nelson [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow, sorry I hadn't checked back in a while, I thought this forum was supposed to email when a reply was made to a thread I posted in.

I thought for sure it was one of the check boxes.. Anyhow, I appreciate the responses, and sorry I wasn't very quick to respond.

The 4 speed column shift in the article by doc.. I will have to look at that, how detailed is the description? Does that still require cutting out the hump, and support out of the floor? That one was where I balked when I was first installing the 3 speed with OD. I wish I knew what happened to that tranny, and bell housing, etc.

I like the idea of using a 5 speed, since that would need the least amount of cutting to the floor (from what I can tell) but I will need to somehow extend the front shaft for that to fit. When doing that conversion, I am under the impression that one would get a MOPAR bell housing, and pressure plate/flywheel, and use the Chev clutch from the donor vehicle to match the splines on the tranny. Offset the bellhousing by a smidge, and drill holes to line up with the tranny from the S-10. The only part that sounds pretty difficult is the extending the input shaft. Does anyone on here who has done this (I am assuming probably having access to a lathe) offer to sell this part?

I am well aware that I probably missed a few things on the auto tranny's I went through. I was 15 when I put the first tranny in it. A friend of the family was going to junk the car because he seriously busted something in the tranny because the column would stick and pull the gear selector into reverse when he turned left. Instead of fixing the column when this began happening, he just left it, and eventually snapped something major in the tranny.

I got it, pulled the tranny, scraped together $75 and bought one from a junkyard. I didn't even have a floor jack, just some sockets, and open end wrenches, used 2x4's to lift the tranny, with blocks placed under them as I went up on either side, used long phillips screwdrivers to line up the holes, and put the thing together. I took apart the steering column, and figured out where it was binding, and fixed that as well, and I drove it for about a year before the tranny began slipping. I put another one in, (junkyard again) and it began slipping. So, I got another one, and someone told me to put a "shift improver" kit in it, before I installed it. I did that, and I did something wrong there (17 years old, with ZERO training) and it acted like it was in 2 gears at once, kinda binding inside all the time. It was then I decided to go with the 4 speed. I bought one out of an aspen, or Volare, got all the linkage, everything from a "U-pull it" junk yard. I had the bell housing installed, the flywheel, the pedals (fought with the fact that the brake pedal didn't want to press the master cylinder as far as the original pedal, and had to put a shim inside, etc.. I was putting the tranny in, when I realized that I would have to cut the main support. I wasn't very knowlegable at the time, but I knew i didn't want to cut a main support structure like that.. So, I pulled it all back out, and put another junkyard tranny in that I was able to drive around the block before it puked fluid from the front seal. .

20 years later, I know a bit more (I got a job as a mechanic when I turned 18, and am a computer hardware technician now) and more importantly, I know how to research, and the internet is an awesome resource for info and advice. I had gotten into mud truck racing, and some other things, wound up married, had kids, and that car got put on the back shelf for a while. Now, I was at my dad's place a while back, and I said to myself, I need to get that old thing on the ROAD AGAIN! Did some searching, and found a BUNCH of info, always loved the slant 6, and I see a few enthusiasts here too!

Anyhow, right now, the two top choices I see are 4speed with column shift (would be awesome) and 5 speed floor shift.

What do I need for either of these two, if this is already covered, a link is just fine. My searches don't always find exactly what I am looking for. Thank you all, this site is giving me hope for that old girl.
Author:  fzmax [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Good on you for learning by doing. I just completed a 'normal' four-speed swap and unless someone drops a T5 or something in my driveway I can't see changing it. The gear ratios work much better than the three-speed and the column shifter can't compare to the Hurst. Of course you could tighten up the column shifter and use that separate reverse lever, but in the end it would be more work.

You got to click that "Watch this tread for replies" at the bottom of the thread to get the notifications.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:01 am ]
Post subject: 
If you search 5 speed swap you will find tons of info about this.

Its easy to extend the input shaft. Its easy to modify the input bearing retainer. Its easy to cut a shifter hole in the car, Its easy to modify a driveshaft and swap uJoints. Its easy to adapt the bellhousing to bolt to the trans. Its easy to make a stock clutch and linkage work.

Its not so easy to make the transmission crossmember/mount.
Author:  Christian Nelson [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Sandy, your posts and info about your 5 speed have been one of the very reasons I have even considered this as a possibility!

I am kinda sad, I was almost there to have a 3 speed with OD installed. I just chickened out when I was going to have to cut gaping holes in my floor.

If I can find a whole setup like that again, would I be better off going that route, or putting a 5 speed in?

I see from some posts that the 5 speed may not require a hole other than the shifter to fit through.

What is the OD gear ratio on the A833 vs a T5 (Aren't these the same as the ford ones and toy?) off a S-10 I wonder?

I am just trying to wiegh my options here before I get the sawzall out..

I want to get this car on the road again.
I would like to have OD
I like driving stick better than auto

I would like to avoid as much hacking up of the car as possible.
I would like this to be cheap
I have til summer to think about this...

My line of thought is as follows: I read the articles on fuel injection, using a Chev v6 to convert it. I have electronic ignition on this car already, so setting up the EFI (batch fired) should be do-able.

I can buy a whole S-10 pick up with a v6/5speed for about $200 around here in running condition. I already have a friend who is willing to buy the truck from me for $100 after that because he wants to drop a small block 400 with an auto tranny in one, and blow people's doors off or something..

I could use the EFI, and the tranny off it, but I still need to figure out where to get a bellhousing, pedals, etc for my Valiant.

So, am I just better off finding a U-pull it junk yard that still has some old Aspen/Volare types with /6 stick and pull everything instead of the S-10 route, and worry about the EFI at a different time?

Column shift isn't necessary, but if I could do that, and not have to cut a hole in my floor at all, that would be a tempting setup. I like the sound of the separate lever for reverse, but, then I have to find a column shift from somewhere.

Asking the collective brains here, and experience of guys who've been there done that.. What is my best course?

I am leanign to finding a bone yard with an old Volare or something to take parts off, maybe even peruse Craigslist looking for one and buy it..

Any other things I should be considering?

904 with lockup? Option I suppose, I just not really liking it. Another 727, and see how it goes? Last option on my list.
Author:  hantayo13 [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:55 am ]
Post subject: 
find a junkyard setup and take eveything including floor hump/driveshaft/littleball on frame for z-bar/clutch&brake pedal assy/crossmember


keep on roddin'
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