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Exhaust, Carb, Cam, head, and rear end question.
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38572
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Author:  /6 Matt [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Exhaust, Carb, Cam, head, and rear end question.

1970 Dodge Dart Swinger
1966 225 Slant Six (previous owner replaced engine, so I don't know if cam is a '66 spec or '70 spec).
1970 A904 Torque Flite
1970 7.25 Open Rear end

Exhaust is gonna be the first upgrade, I want a dull roar at idle and a purr at cruising speeds. Thinking 2 piece headers with 2" primaries, 2.5" collectors, Full 2.5" dual exhaust with magnaflows. How does that sound? Exhaust will be done custom in the front yard, not interested in clifford's headers or dutra's manifolds. No proper muscle car has single exhaust, so don't even suggest it.

Carb comes second. Is it nessecary to upgrade the cam in order to run a 4-bbl, or would the engine not be able to handle it? I intend to do a cam upgrade anyways but I was wondering if I bought the intake and carb if I could run it before I get the cam, or would I have to wait for the cam? Also does anybody know of a good 4-bbl that is equivelant to a Holley 390 CFM, only with smaller primaries?

Cam will be addressed thirdly. Gonna use a Engle cam (.546/.546 lift and 271/271 lift). I know that sounds radical, but mopar action used this cam in a slant six build up and it Idled at 900 rpm and got 16 mpg, ran a 13 second quarter mile. The torque converter is not a problem since I plan to use a A-833 overdrive unit with a custom pistol grip.

I know that the secret to power for a slant six is head work, I intend to do head work after the cam upgrade. What how big should the valves be? Whats a good company to send the head to (anywhere as long as its in America).

Also does anybody know of a good company to send the rear end to for a rebuild, want to beef it up and convert to posi. location goes the same for the head.

Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Ground up priority...

The 7.25" isn't gonna take that kind of action without one of the hard to find sure grip and 4 spider diffs. You'll need to up grade to a bigger rearend, and for that cam and the mods, you're gonna need some 3.91's or so...

If you have a 1970 car, what brakes does it have, the 9" aren't going to stop you as well as the 10" drum, and disc brakes would be best.

The headwork would help even the stock engine, the best in the biz would be Mike Jeffries. What kind of 4 barrel intake are wanting to run? There isn't anything smaller than the Holley 390, unless you decide to go back to a larger 2 barrel.

You'll need to do the reasearch before slapping it all together, everything needs to be picked to work together or you won't be happy in the end result.

-D.Idiot

Author:  /6 Matt [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ground up priority...

Quote:
The 7.25" isn't gonna take that kind of action without one of the hard to find sure grip and 4 spider diffs. You'll need to up grade to a bigger rearend, and for that cam and the mods, you're gonna need some 3.91's or so...

If you have a 1970 car, what brakes does it have, the 9" aren't going to stop you as well as the 10" drum, and disc brakes would be best.

The headwork would help even the stock engine, the best in the biz would be Mike Jeffries. What kind of 4 barrel intake are wanting to run? There isn't anything smaller than the Holley 390, unless you decide to go back to a larger 2 barrel.

You'll need to do the reasearch before slapping it all together, everything needs to be picked to work together or you won't be happy in the end result.

-D.Idiot
Gonna do 2.76 gears in the rear with a 3.09 first gear in the trans. Forgot to metion that the car will only be used for tire shredding and cruising, so for fuel economy sake I'm not going any higher than 3.23. For Brakes I'm reading into disc brake conversions. Forgot to mention that I'm gonna rebuild the suspension with polygraphite bushings, sway bars, and big-block torsion bars (for 383 cars).

Author:  Reed [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

Use the force, or, better yet, the search button: Image Its up there under the "Slant 6 Forum" banner, but you can click on the picture in this post too.

You truly need to do some research and reading before you just start throwing parts together. I would never pick a cam based on what Mopar Action (or any other "enthusiast" magazine) used. Do the research and learn what you really need to do to achieve the results you want.

DI has given you many very good suggestions already, but there is much info in previous posts on this site available to be searched. Like the Godfather Pizza ads used to say, "Do it."

Author:  ceej [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

Start here:

Tech Articles

And then work through the FAQ's in the various sections. Search for the things you are considering changing, and you'll find a lot of good information.

CJ

Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ground up priority...

Quote:
Gonna do 2.76 gears with a 3.09 first gear. Forgot to metion that the car will only be used for tire shredding and cruising, so for fuel economy sake I'm not going any higher than 3.23.
Ask anyone on the site, and they will tell you I am a fan of the 7 1/4 rear.
But, for what you want to do, don't even think about using it. Even putting several hundred dollars into it, to make it as strong as possible, you will break it after just a few "drop the hammer" launches.

Author:  /6 Matt [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

I've been reading internet articles about the slant six for almost 3 years now that includes performance upgrades and complete builds. God knows I've done my research, now I just need to know if the Ideas I've drawn from that research are good Ideas or not.

Author:  /6 Matt [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ground up priority...

Quote:
Mike Jeffries.

-D.Idiot
location? contact info?

Author:  /6 Matt [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
I would never pick a cam based on what Mopar Action (or any other "enthusiast" magazine) used."
Well doug Dutra was on hand building the engine, so I believe he knows what he's doing.

Author:  Reed [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

I have absolute faith that Doug Dutra knows what he is doing. However, and he is certainly more than welcome to correct me if I am wrong, my understanding was that the pieces used to build the engine for Mopar Action were chosen not based on how they would perform, but, rather, what the sponsors supplied. My understanding is that a much better engine could have been built if a better combination of parts had been used.

Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 

DartMan,

Welcome to the site. NC is close to the geographic center of Slant 6 drag racing on the East side of the US, so hopefully we'll see you at a race this year or next! The N. Wilkesboro, NC race happens in July (date not set yet) and there are others not too far away in MD, TN, GA...

The head guy (about the best "for hire" in the US for Slants) is Mike Jeffrey in Nebraska and his home phone is 308-324-3576. He can set you up with a killer head for a reasonable price for the performance you'll get.

If you are set on duals, I would highly suggest dual 2" from Clifford shorty headers all the way back, with an X or H pipe just behind the trans X-member. Most people will tell you that a Slant Six Dart is not a muscle car, and I am of the opinion that duals are for V engines and single for inlines. That's just my opinion and you are certainly etitled to yours. :)

That is a big cam. Since you have a stick, you can handle it, but it will take some tuning. A 390 Holley 4bbl or Edelbrock 500 4bbl would be your best choices for a 4bbl carb. I like the Eddy's myself for tuning and streetability.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your project!

Lou

Author:  Joshie225 [ Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

That cam choice is going to give up a lot of low end torque and therefore the car will have poor acceleration with 2.76 or 3.23 gears. With an A833OD you can use 3.91 gears and have an overall high gear ratio of 2.85:1. Good for tire shredding and cruising. The problem is the A833OD ratio spread is very wide and the RPM drop between gears is severe. With a much milder cam than the one you propose I was much, much happier with a standard 1:1 high gear A833.

How will you be raising the compression ratio to about 11:1 to compliment the chosen cam?

I'm going to quote a post of my own I made a little over a year ago in this thread: http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=219667
Quote:
Even in this community a lot of people seek parts for parts sake and not to reach a HP or ET goal. I think David Vizard put it best when he wrote something like: "You don't want to own a drill bit. You want the hole." In the same manner you don't want a 4bbl carburetor and intake manifold, you want the increased performance. Where a lot of people go wrong is buying parts they don't need, that don't help or help very little for the money spent (poor value).

The first performance slant I built was a performance failure. I had a Holley 390, Clifford intake, Clifford headers, Mopar 276°/.490" cam, forged +.030" pistons, high volume oil pump, roller timing set and electronic ignition. I thought I needed all that stuff, but didn't realize all that I had done wrong. The compression ratio was much too low, the distributor curve was wrong and it ended up eating the oil pump and cam gears. It had a really healthy sounding idle, but my '66 Dart was really slow.

After the cam and oil pump gear in that engine failed I put in a Comp 264° cam and a stock oil pump. The engine idled much better, was easier on the clutch and was just as fast if not faster. Recurving the distributor made it faster yet. When I finally got the compression ratio up and put big valves in the head the car really ran well. At this point I was road racing the car and poor oil control killed a rod bearing which took out the rod, a piston, the block and crank.

My '67 Valiant has a stock short block including the stock cam. I came into an Offy intake and a Holley 390 at a good price. I had a head milled for compression (it's all of 8.5:1), had larger valves fitted and ported the head myself. I had 2 1/4" exhaust with a Walker Dynomax Super Turbo muffler installed from the stock manifold to the bumper. Ignition is via a recurved stock electronic distributor and an HEI module and coil. This car is just as quick as my '66 Dart was and cost me a fraction to build. I may not have a real fancy drill bit this time, but I have just as nice a hole.
Since the engine is a number of systems working together you need to make sure they all play well together. Personally I would use a much milder cam, match it with the proper compression ratio and use a ported head with bigger valves.

Oh, yeah, with 3.21 gears and a 3-speed manual my Valiant gets 20 MPG on the highway. I could probably get is to about 22 MPH if the bottom end were fresh and I tuned the carb and ignition a bit more.

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