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Aluminum slant build
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38763		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  passing you [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Aluminum slant build
Hi, I'm 1wild&crazyguy from F.A.B.O and I have a '62 v-200 valiant with a aluminum 225 in it that I'm building.
The motor will have to be tame'ish for the wife will drive it mosly[her car] see I originally bought the motor but before they pulled it I decided to ask 'how much for the car?', he said $750 , I said, sold!

I have a clifford 4 brl intake, epn 1.70/1.44 valves, 390 holley carb, crank scraper, and a ported head [if the chambers are tight enough 'diameter wise' for the 'cylinder seal' then I'll use it] and have yet to get headers.
This engine blew a head gasket at 80,000miles and well..I'm wanting to weld/fill the deck on this one to avoid any more head gasket failures.

and bump the compression up to 9.5 and run a cam around 260*,.450 lift 'after lash' on a 108 or so, I know long strokes eat up/like narrow cl's.
It has the 904 at and will get a mild shift kit and 2200 stall convertor and 3.55 gear [I have a 3.55 ring pinion set out of a 63 dart sure grip]
and a friend has the sure grip I need but I also have an abody 8 3/4 w/3.23 sitting around.. so a few options.

and I do have a low gear 4spd, but don't really wanna cut a #'s alum eng car. :x :D
Author:  Doc [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
How much corrosion is around the tops of the cylinder bores?
Do you see any seperation of the outer aluminum from the cast iron cylinder liners?

In general, "welding closed" the top deck is not recomended, doing that warps the block and distorts the liners.
DD
Author:  passing you [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
no separation of the liner, I will mic the walls.

How would you close up the deck?
Author:  Doc [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
You don't really need to close the deck as long as the tops of the cylinders are in good condition and get re-surfaced "dead flat".
On blocks that have a lot of corrosion or delamination at the tops of the cylinders, I press-on repair rings... but doing that job is a lot of work.

I have successfully run 9 to 1 compression with open deck, factory head gasket Aluminum SL6 engines.
DD

Image

Image
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Buy the very best aftermarket custom crank damper you can afford. Don't even think about re-using the 48 year old one on the car.

Make sure your rotating assembly is carefully balanced.

Carefully maintain your coolant and replace it on a regular basis.

If you really want to close the deck with minimal stress introduced, look into electroforming. Probably $^3
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:24 am ]
Post subject: 
There is no reason or need to buy a costly vibration damper. The standard type works fine.
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like a great project. I am in the middle of a similar buildup myself (longish term, might run next winter?). I plan to try the OEM gasket with a little over 9:1 comp and the motor is 0.040" over.

Yes, corrosion is key, as Doc said. I would love to find a way to either support the cyls/liners or get a multi-layer steel (MLS) modern head gasket made. Calls to Cometic might help them along, but a few people have tried already.

Lou
Author:  Kevin Johnson [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:24 am ]
Post subject: 
If you look at the pic that Doc posted of the block sealing surfaces and open deck it is just plain scary. That block is moving around, guaranteed.

Stock dampers are for stock engines. The author is not proposing building a stock engine. On the aluminum block, departures from stock will have a greater effect and consequence than with an iron closed deck engine.
Author:  Wizard [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Open deck is common on some western engines and world engine is also open deck.

Properly designed, no problems and not go crazy on compression ratio as well.

Cheers, Wizard
Author:  passing you [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah, I tore it down this morning and it's looks like it'll need some repair at the top of 2 cylinders, one which I now see is slightly separating.
You can just see the parting line...

I can't post any pics through this format so here's a link to the original post at FABO.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/sho ... hp?t=87472
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
If you look at the pic that Doc posted of the block sealing surfaces and open deck it is just plain scary. That block is moving around, guaranteed.
Don't tell me you have never seen a Honda B18C with the head off...
Author:  Joshie225 [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's one!

Image

Looks like nearly twice the aluminum around the cylinders and the cylinders are shorter which makes them more rigid. I'm sure the cylinders being siamesed also adds rigidity.
Author:  adiffrentcity [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Is it possible that someone so inclined could use block filler or a similar material to achieve a similar effect to doc's cylinder repair without completely closing the deck?

Or perhaps (gasp) sleeves?

Also I have read of engine builders (honda and similar) machining the cylinders taller than the block, and making a corresponding "trough" in the head. Obviously only talking thousandths or ten thousandths here.

Off-topic, I know, but CPmike has indicated that it would only take pre-purchase of 50 units to get an MLS made by cometic. Maybe it's time for a group buy.

Surely they could be designed to fit both the al and fe block. Doc?
Author:  Doc [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
A special head gasket made to fit the Alm. SL6 will work on a cast iron SL6 but not the other way around.
The biggest problem is that the Alm. block needs a fire ring that is close to the 3.440 max bore size and many of the cast iron block, performance engines being built these days are using much larger bore sizes. (3.504)

If you want to "think out of the box" on different ways to repair and stabilize the top deck on the Aluminum block SL6... you can machine and epoxy-in a "filler plate" or a number of smaller insert pieces.

A different idea is to use "block rock" (Race Engineering's block filler) and mix-in some reinforcemant material like fiberglass strands. As long as the block filler does not shrink or crack over time... it may work.

Another "brain-fart" idea.. how about using six or twelve, 3 1/2 -4" stainless steel hose clamps and high temp epoxy? Stagger the clamp's worm screw heads to hold the epoxy where you want it and provide contact / support between cylinders and the surrounding water jacket walls.
(disclaimer... I have never tried any of the above ideas so I don't now if the suggested materials or methods would hold-up to the stresses)
Anyway... just some ideas to think about.
DD
Author:  passing you [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
i thought about block filling, but the die cast might just expand away and the 'deck of block filler' would slip down and leak city...

still intriguing though, maybe fill the whole damn thing and just use it for the strip...ha

the repair rings are nice, have any ya wanna sell Doug? :)


and the group buy on the MLS gaskets sounds good to me.
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