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SL6 engine tilt while running ? oiling system ok for this ?
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Author:  brian72valiant [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  SL6 engine tilt while running ? oiling system ok for this ?
hello all
I am new fourm member Brian Scarborough.
I am also a new Valiant owner with its slant 6

my car is equped with hydraulic suspension , and I can raise the car and lower it independently on all 4 corners. its quite alot of fun to play with,
but my main question here for all of you is that of the engine oiling system. - basicly to ask if the oiling is only good if the engine is sitting level with the car - or should I expect problems like oil starvation and or poor dranige back to the oil pan if the car is tilted one way or another.

here is an example :
Image

the front end is lowered all the way and the crossmember is touching the pavment - the rear end is up all the way. quite a fowards lean - would I expect poor engine oiling in this position ?
how about the opposite way, - older pic but back down / front up
Image

and is there any thing I might be able to do that would help engine oiling in the extreme engine angles like adding a crank scraper if there isnt one there now - and or taping or blocking off certan oil drain back holes ?
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Welcome. Quite an interesting car - nice to see something totally out of the ordinary.

Probably you are fine with those tilts, but it would be good to check. I would install an oil pressure gauge to see if there are any issues with tilt. Momentary drops (few sec or less) are not terrible, but sustained drops are evil.

If you have oil pressure issues, you can pull the oilpan and make sure the pickup is "on the floor" and possibly install some baffles or deepen the sump a little.

You can also get a Canton Accusump oil accumulator (Moroso has version too). These will not work for sustained periods, but maybe for 20 sec or so.

Lou
Author:  mpgFanatic [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Probably you are fine with those tilts, but it would be good to check. I would install an oil pressure gauge to see if there are any issues with tilt. Momentary drops (few sec or less) are not terrible, but sustained drops are evil.
I love that sparkle paint job. :D

Many years ago I parked regularly on a driveway that was at least that steep. I discovered (thanks to an oil pressure gauge) that it's pretty important to keep the oil all the way to the "full" mark on the dipstick.

All that body motion is just for showing off in parking lots or at stop lights, yes? I mean, you're not actually going to be moving down the highway at legal speed limits when you do that, right? I ask because I suspect it's not the tilt that would be the hardest thing for the oil pan and pickup to handle, but the sloshing when the car suddenly moves from one position to another. If you can do the big slosh with the engine off, I'll bet it would thank you.

I saw a pickup parked once that must have been 1/4 inch away from the pavement. How in the world does he drive it? Then, as if in answer, the owner sauntered back to the truck, fired it up, then Blip the front end bounces up, then Blip the back end bounces up, then he drives away normally. It was a very amusing effect. :)

- Erik
Author:  brian72valiant [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject: 
in a fiew states it is legal to operate variable height suspensions as long as the car is traveling 35mph or less and none of the tires leave the ground. in FL where I live it is illegal to operate ajustable height suspensions while driving on public roads. parking lots and private roads are ok tho.

that being said - I have used them at 45mph. I can get the front end bouncing up and down making about 15+ inches of air under the front tires. - not something I do all the time - but ocasionaly ill have to hit switches when people pull up next to me at stop lights and what not and are begging to see the hydraulics work. im suprized how many people are crazy nutso bananas to see the car go up and down. its a pretty regular occurence. ive even had a guy get out of his car at a stop light and start photographing my car with a real deal 35mm film camera with all the bells and whistles on it.

but back to the cars tilt while the engine is running -
I plan to install a oil psi guage pronto - in a t line coming off the oil sender unit so I can keep the idiot light just incase.

and I was maby thinking of a crank scraper to help with the "slosh" of oil when the front end starts bouncing.
Author:  Old6rodder [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
8)

Needless to say, here in SoCal a wide variety of cars are built to dance by rodders, and have been for many years. Yours is the first Valiant I've seen done so. There may well be others, I just haven't seen one before.

To your question;

I've occasionally asked that of the builders and recall only one gentleman who'd addressed it in his car. He'd cobbled a widened pan sump with a perforated baffle accross the top of the sump area to limit oil splashing out of the sump but still allow drain back at an acceptable rate. He said he allowed a larger opening only sufficient to snake the pan on over the pick-up.

He also said he'd considered a removable bottom plate for the sump in order to cover even that opening with an added baffle insert after the pan was on but figured that was a bit much.

I guess there're "fringies" in every corner of our hobby. :D
Not that I'd know, of course. :roll: :wink:
Author:  mpgFanatic [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
To your question;

I've occasionally asked that of the builders and recall only one gentleman who'd addressed it in his car.
Yea, that struck me, too. Kudos for being someone who cares about the details.

Even if I don't understand the attraction to bouncing my car, I can still relate to the fun factor of having something unexpected. ;)

- Erik
Author:  Greg Ondayko [ Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cool Car. Yes I would think that as long as you kept a good 5 quarts in the pan/ filter at all times the stock system should be good. I have had my car on steep hills around here idling at about the same to more severe angles than you car sits. I only ever starved the pickup once on a big hill and I was down 2 quarts.


I think the best improvement would be a windage tray instead of a scraper for your intended application.


Good luck with your car.




Greg
Author:  KLJohnson [ Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cool car.

If you bounce the car while the engine is running make sure to have the top sump baffle suggested. [ BTW, that is a type of windage tray. ] The oil will come off the floor as well and you'll suck air. This is a perfect application for an accumulator (what it was designed for).

Try to get an oil pressure gauge that is not heavily damped. That means you will see momentary spikes/drops and the needle will dance around a lot more. Maybe hook up a big red warning light that will catch your attention so you know when to cool it.

Bouncing like this (but offroad) -- while moving forward -- is how one customer lost a brand new Mopar 360 and other customers lost airboat engines.

The other type of windage tray mentioned in the deleted post won't really help stop the oil from lifting up. It is too high.

When you start moving down the road or braking is when you really need to be careful. People here are remembering that the static angle must be added to the angle generated by the acceleration or deceleration of the car and measured on the surface of the oil in the sump.
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