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Holley 390 idle speed https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39078 |
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Author: | drrw [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Holley 390 idle speed |
What is the usual idle speed for the 390 Holley? I just installed a brand new 0-8007 4-bbl. I can not get it to idle less than 850 rpm. That is with the primary idle speed screw completely out and the secondary idle speed screw completely out. At 1/4 in on both, I am at 1050 rpm. Engine is 225, standard big valves, Erson RV cam. Idle mix is 1 turn out, both sides. Stock metering plate on the other end. Timing is at 10 BTDC. Vacuum at idle is 19". Previous to this, I had the 1920 while I was sorting out the rest of the car. I recently had the progressive 2305 on it, which I loved except for the fact it has no electric choke or fast idle. With either of these, I could easily get an idle of 600 rpm. The 2305 was using the same Offenhauser intake (4bbl) with an adaptor. I have sprayed all over (and over and over) and I only got one small blip at the secondary shaft (but not consistently). If there is a leak, I can't find it. So, could this high idle speed be "normal" for this combination? Thanks. |
Author: | ceej [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
No, it's not. OK, You still have a plate secondary, we can address that later. The choke fast idle cam is on the lowest setting. Have you installed the Holley throttle lever adapter? Make sure the throttle cable is not holding things open. Also, pull the carb and make sure the butterflies are not interfering with the adapter plate your using. Which manifold are you using? Double check to make sure the linkages aren't interfering with anything. Sometimes air filter housings can mess you up too. Something is holding the plates open. It should die with both the secondary and primary idle screws backed out. You are going to be in for some tuning when you get it to idle if everything is set up as it came out of the box. We're here when you get to that point! ![]() CJ |
Author: | drrw [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Throttle cable is loose at idle. It is definitely as closed as it can be when released. Choke is all the way against it's stop. Manifold is Offenhauser 4bbl. It has it's plate on top and now it has an Edelbrock carb twister plate above that and then the carb. Butterflies are as closed as possible. To give an illustration, I just rechecked what you mentioned. I bumped the throttle while I was looking down the throats and the fuel pooled on the top of the plates. Definitely closed. Not helping am I? ![]() So, not normal. Not good. Is there another way to find a leak? What else could it be if the butterflies are closing? Thanks. I know tuning is part of the process. Be nice to get to that point. |
Author: | ceej [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
OK. The choke is full open. On the secondary idle side of the carb, there is another idle adjustment. It is related to the fast idle cam. Now, as long as you don't have a horrilbe manifold to head leak, this is the only other place the air could be coming from. Make sure that the "Fast Idle adjustment screw" isn't holding the plates open. Check back! I'm in from the shop. I think my compressor is over loaded with the new blast cabinet. Time to order a new made in the USA compressor. ![]() CJ |
Author: | drrw [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Unfortunately, I tried backing off the fast idle screw already. Then I got a mirror and verified it wasn't touching. Speaking of compressors, I am going to hook mine up to the pcv inlet (don't panic, 3psi only) and see if I can find a leak. If there is a big leak, shouldn't the mixture screws end up happy much farther out than 1 turn? Thanks again. Nice to hear an opinion other than the voices in my head. |
Author: | DusterIdiot [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Soooo... |
Did you index the secondary throttle plate stop per any of the Holley literature out there? If that little upside down screw is holding the secondary plates a little bit more open than they should be, you're getting more air (possibly some gas) and a high idle speed. With that cam you should be able to acheive 700-800 with no problems... -D.Idiot |
Author: | ceej [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
For the time being, plug the pcv hose fitting at the carb. Leave the pcv hose off. With the PCV fitting on the carb plugged, what does it run like? CJ |
Author: | drrw [ Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I tried plugging the pcv last week. I can't recall the details other than it did what I have read it is supposed to do. Supposed to be a calibrated air leak, right? I decided to swap the pcv valve anyway, to be on the safe side. I have hose clamps on both ends. To answer DI, secondary has been adjusted to the point of complete closure. I now have a new "special" tool to adjust that idiotic screw while the carb is attached. It is at least easier with the carb sideways. |
Author: | drrw [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Today I tried the following: 1. Pushed about 3 psi of air into the pcv inlet. I could not hear any air other than from the top of the carb. I put the "cap" holley ships the carb with over the top. Then I sprayed soapy water on all the joints I could see. No bubbles. 2. Started the engine. It did not start as easy as usual. That is, it started fine, but when I unloaded the choke it died a few times. It didn't do that yesterday. Got it warm. Then I tried using propane to find a leak. Aimed it at the base, all gaskets, the intake to head connection. Nothing. 3. Plugged the pcv. Sucked my finger and idle dropped about 30 rpm. 4. Lowered the float level a bit. Readjusted the mix. Pretty much the same as before. It does seem to be more unstable when the idle screw is all the way out. It is smooth at about 1100 rpm, at about 930 it gets rough up and down surging. FWIW, I can choke the engine to die by covering both secondary bores. I can do the same on the primary side, but it takes a bit longer maybe because it is hard to seal that side. Anything else I can try? I am at a loss at the moment. |
Author: | ceej [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Not without laying my hands on it. If both sets of butterflies are fully shut, you shouldn't get enough air to keep the engine idling. You said the carburetor is new. Not a reconditioned unit somebody sent back to Summit or something like that? Are there any holes drilled in the throttle plates? The unit has the original metering blocks? Nothing has been modified? CJ |
Author: | drrw [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Yes, brand new in the Holley box from Amazon. As far as I know, it is brand new. Certainly looked and smelled new (no gas fumes). Came with the Holley tags and all. I would have to take it apart to know what is inside and I don't want to do that yet. I think I have gone past Amazons 30 day return window, but I don't want to tear it apart unless I'm stuck with it. Funny, I checked for holes in the plates too. I read somewhere about racing versions having holes in the plates. No holes. When I had the pressure going through the pcv, I opened both sides, one at a time and listened as they shut. It sounded like it was very constricted compared to when it was part open, but it still sounded like all the air was flowing that way (down the throats-or rather up the throats). I am nowhere near the transition port on the secondary side. I can't see the other side very well, but I think it is the same. "Not without laying my hands on it. If both sets of butterflies are fully shut, you shouldn't get enough air to keep the engine idling." Come on over. Blue skies, sunshine (for the moment). I have sent the tech people at Holley a message. We will see what they say. |
Author: | ceej [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Quote: Come on over. Blue skies, sunshine (for the moment).
![]() We have sunny blue skies here at the moment. Word is, they'll go away in the next day or so! ![]() Let us know what the folks at Holley have to say. Hopefully they'll take care of you! Beyond that, you'll have to take it down and see what you find. Make absolutely sure the gaskets aren't interfering in some way. Also that when you place the carb on the intake plate that none of the linkage is contacting the intake or plate. Some carburetors have to be mounted on spacers to avoid interference. CJ |
Author: | SV162 [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Quote: FWIW, I can choke the engine to die by covering both secondary bores. I can do the same on the primary side, but it takes a bit longer maybe because it is hard to seal that side.
If you can do this I'm thinking the throttle plates are not completely closed. Like Ceej said, if the plates were fully closed the engine wouldn't run ie. no air. You covering the bores is blocking that air flow so they must be open.........somehow??? ![]() My first thought is the secondary plates are still open a bit too far. I've had a carb were the secondary idle screw felt like it was all the way out but it wasn't and the plates were quite a bit open. I really had to swing on that screw driver to turn that screw and close the plates. Here's a good way to check that the plates are fully closed when both primary and secondary idle screws are all the way out. With the carb off the intake, go to a dark room, shine a torch from underneith the carb. If you can see light shining through around the edges of the throttle plates then they are still open or maybe Holley installed the wrong size plates for your carb. If you don't see light around the plates then you can safely say the plates are shut, and if this is the case then I'm out of ideas. ![]() I used this method to set the secondary idle on my 390. With your torch in place again, screw the secondary idle screw right out so you don't see any light around the throttle plates. You will still see a little at the shaft ends. Now screw in the secondary idle speed until you just see a bit of light shining through, so the plates are just cracked open. Works for me. ![]() |
Author: | ceej [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Just a note: Torch is Australianese for "Flashlight." Don't light up the acetylene or propane! ![]() But you knew that! ![]() CJ |
Author: | drrw [ Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Thanks for the translation. My parents are English so I am bilingual. I can't say torching it isn't starting to cross my mind. I have that secondary screw as close to doing nothing as I care to get it. I have screwed it out with the engine running. The engine will slow down, get rough and then I screw it in to the point where it picks up any rpm at all. So basically, close the blades completely, then open them the minimum amount so some fuel is going through that circuit. I feel like if the secondary screw is all the way out, the carb is not functioning as intended and what's the point of that? Having said that, I can't say I have tried to get it to idle smoothly with the secondary screw all the way out. I will try that and see if it is possible. Might give me a clue if one side is functioning better than the other. The secondary throttle plates have a number on them. Just looked, says 96. Primaries are blank (on top anyway). |
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