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 Post subject: Rebuilt /6 Running Hot
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 12:22 pm 
Just rebuilt my 225 (All stock) in my 68 Dart. Engine is running fine now except it wants to run hot. Had the stock 2 row radiator recored, new water pump and hoses, 160 Thermostat, 16lb cap, and running the stock 4 blade fan. The 68 Darts /6 didn't have a shroud. Non A/C car with A/T.
I seen discussion on this issue in the past. Anyone had success in resolving this problem??
Does a flex fan help. Don't seem to have room for a clutch fan. Any help appreciated.

usclstaffingnet@sprintmail.com


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 Post subject: /6 Running Hot
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 4:29 pm 
160 Thermostat

Start off by swapping the 160 thermo for a 190 unit. The same amount of coolant will run thru the rad regardless. Since a key driver of heat transter (coolant to rad fins to air) is temperature difference. 190'F to 80'F gets rid of more heat than 160'F to 80'F.


ahtoews@shaw.ca


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:13 pm 
Quote:
: Just rebuilt my 225 (All stock) in my 68 Dart.
: Engine is running fine now except it wants
: to run hot. Had the stock 2 row radiator
: recored, new water pump and hoses, 160
: Thermostat, 16lb cap, and running the stock
: 4 blade fan. The 68 Darts /6 didn't have a
: shroud. Non A/C car with A/T.


Drain the radiator down to where you can get a look at the top of the core tubes. (a small flashlight helps)
Check to see if there is any "rust scale" or other junk plugging the core tubes.
New (rebuilt) engines can have a lot of loose rust scale in the water jackets which can quickly plug a radiator.
The good news is that this stuff can be "back-flushed" out if you catch it quickly.
You may want to varify the actual water temp. to the gauge reading by using a cooking thermometer.
Other things to check is the timming (retarded) and the heat riser valve / exhaust system for restriction.
DD


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:52 am 
Quote:
: Drain the radiator down to where you can get a
: look at the top of the core tubes. (a small
: flashlight helps)
: Check to see if there is any "rust
: scale" or other junk plugging the core
: tubes.
: New (rebuilt) engines can have a lot of loose
: rust scale in the water jackets which can
: quickly plug a radiator.
: The good news is that this stuff can be
: "back-flushed" out if you catch it
: quickly.
: You may want to varify the actual water temp.
: to the gauge reading by using a cooking
: thermometer.
: Other things to check is the timming (retarded)
: and the heat riser valve / exhaust system
: for restriction.
: DD


Doc,
Block and head were cleaned very well and were washed and flushed a number of times before freeze plugs were installed and engine assembled. Also, I removed the block drain plug and flushed it and the radiator again and haven't seen any rust or scale. Don't see any on top of radiator tubes.
Timing is exactly on TDC.
There have been some suggestions to go from the 160 to a 195 thermostat.
What do you recommend? A 160, 180 or 195 thermostat.
I checked it with a liquid thermometer and removed it when it reached 200 degrees which was the max for the thermometer I had. What should be the normal operating temp for a stock 225 (non A/C with A/T)? The outside temp is pushing 100 degrees.
It has never boiled or blown steam but gets VERY hot. Idling temp and driving temp seems to be the same - at least by the guage.

usclstaffingnet@sprintmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild Running Hot
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:59 am 
Quote:
: Doc,
: Block and head were cleaned very well and were
: washed and flushed a number of times before
: freeze plugs were installed and engine
: assembled. Also, I removed the block drain
: plug and flushed it and the radiator again
: and haven't seen any rust or scale. Don't
: see any on top of radiator tubes.
: Timing is exactly on TDC.
: There have been some suggestions to go from the
: 160 to a 195 thermostat.
: What do you recommend? A 160, 180 or 195
: thermostat.
: I checked it with a liquid thermometer and
: removed it when it reached 200 degrees which
: was the max for the thermometer I had. What
: should be the normal operating temp for a
: stock 225 (non A/C with A/T)? The outside
: temp is pushing 100 degrees.
: It has never boiled or blown steam but gets
: VERY hot. Idling temp and driving temp seems
: to be the same - at least by the guage.


Great job on the block / head pre-cleaning, this is ofen overlooked and a cause of overheating problems.

Al's suggestion to try a different thermostat is a good one, thermostats are inexpensive and easy to change so try a different one. (or two)

One thing you may want to do / check is to test the circulation. Run the engine without a thermostat to see how aggressively it moves the coolent. (watch the water run thru the top tank)
I have seen some water pump impellers and seperator plate combos that were not real efficient. (the impeller was installed far away from the plate opening and / or the plate opening was small)

I would say to bump-up the timing to 6 degrees BTDC to see if that helps. Another thought is that this new engine is a little tight and is producing extra heat through added friction, in my mind, the cooling system should be able to handle that.
DD


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild Running Hot
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:44 pm 
Quote:
: Great job on the block / head pre-cleaning,
: this is ofen overlooked and a cause of
: overheating problems.
:
: Al's suggestion to try a different thermostat
: is a good one, thermostats are inexpensive
: and easy to change so try a different one.
: (or two)
:
: One thing you may want to do / check is to test
: the circulation. Run the engine without a
: thermostat to see how aggressively it moves
: the coolent. (watch the water run thru the
: top tank)
: I have seen some water pump impellers and
: seperator plate combos that were not real
: efficient. (the impeller was installed far
: away from the plate opening and / or the
: plate opening was small)
:
: I would say to bump-up the timing to 6 degrees
: BTDC to see if that helps. Another thought
: is that this new engine is a little tight
: and is producing extra heat through added
: friction, in my mind, the cooling system
: should be able to handle that.
: DD


If the engine is running too lean it can add to an already precarious situation in the cooling department, when coupled with retarded timing, too tight of valve clearances, & additional heat developed in engine break-in.

fglmopar@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild Running Hot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:43 am 
Quote:
: One thing you may want to do / check is to test
: the circulation. Run the engine without a
: thermostat to see how aggressively it moves
: the coolent. (watch the water run thru the
: top tank)
: I have seen some water pump impellers and
: seperator plate combos that were not real
: efficient. (the impeller was installed far
: away from the plate opening and / or the
: plate opening was small)


I am also having an overheating problem and suspect my water pump. Are there any brands that you have found to be more/less troublesome with regard to effeciency? Also, something else that has been bothering me - given the direction that my engine turns (clockwise viewed from the front), my new water pump's impellers "slap" the water with their flat side rather than "scoop" the water with their cupped side. I don't have an old one to compare it with. Is this a concern,I can't find any that are the other way.

rjwoerly@ucdavis.edu


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild Running Hot
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:47 pm 
Quote:
: given the direction that my engine turns
: (clockwise viewed from the front), my new
: water pump's impellers "slap" the
: water with their flat side rather than
: "scoop" the water with their
: cupped side. I don't have an old one to
: compare it with. Is this a concern,I can't
: find any that are the other way.


The pump is designed to "throw" the coolent outward, then the direction of rotation pushes that coolent into the block while sucking more into the pump fins, through the sepertator plate's center hole. I don't think the coolent cares which way the stamped steel impeller fins are bent and no one says you can't "trim" on them a bit to improve flow.
(If you look at factory pump, they have a very different looking cast iron impeller)

All I can say is that I do not have much trouble getting either type of pump to cool a SL6, even when I cut every other fin off the stamp steel impeller. (a low drag - high RPM racer modification)
DD


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