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Ken
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| Ignition trouble? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=42787 |
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| Author: | Scallywagon67 [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Ignition trouble? |
O.k. I have a 71' dart swinger with a 225 that I got over this past Sumer. I cannot get this thing to start at all. It will crank but no fire. Here is the history of what I have done to it before this started happening, maybe someone can tell me if I'm forgeting to check something. This car ran pretty good for my friend for the time that he owned it. It has 70k miles on it and we are fairly confident that it is accurate. Well before bringing it home we had to replace the battery, starter, voltage regulator, and balast resistor. These were all known to be bad. So after this the only other thing that I had to replace was the starter relay. Now it ran pretty good for me other than the carb would load up on me every so often sometimes stalling it out. This would only happen at stop lights. And it would sometimes back fire when it would do this. Nothing loud just a little pop. Well Im using this as a daily driver so I decided to give it tune up. We replaced the plugs and wires, cap, rotor button, coil, condenser,points, and also checked a ajusted the timing. Evrything that had to be ajusted was done to specs. It now ran a bit smoother but still trouble with that carb. About a couple weeks after tuning it up I got up one morning to take the dog to the park, which only a couple miles from the house. When I started the car it was missing really bad. I went on to the park since it not far and also to see what the heck was going on. Well it was miss firing the whole way there and on the way home. Later that day I could even get it to run. I got a new holley 1bbl for it put it on still nothing. So we went back through the points checking the dwell and replaced the now fouled out plugs. Still no fire. The spark for the no.1 cylinder look realy weak. Did some more messing around with the new carb and finally got it running. I let it run for a good twenty minutes or so. Later that day I went to start it up and guess what? Missing and really bad back firing again. So I this point I took it to a local mechnic. He said the new carb was junk. So I took it back got and got another one. We agreed that I would put it on to avoid shop cost. Well did that and also threw in another set of new plugs. I got a few good cranks out of it and it tried turn over but the mechanic drained the battery. I decided to leave it for him to look into further. In short he had my car for another five weeks and never looked at it again. I got home charged and charged the battery. Try to start it, still just cranking. Decided to bypass the alt. Gauge to see if that was it. Same result. So then we looked at the spark again and it still seems really weak. Any guesses or thoughts on what I should check next will be highly appreciated. |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:28 am ] |
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First off, welcome aboard Scallywagon67. I recommend that you locate on the web a Chrysler Corp. Factory Service Manual for your 71 Dart, it will be worth every penny spent. Under “Articles†section on this site, there is a ton of technical write-ups covering /6 vehicles that you will find interesting and informative, give them a look-see. Where you all ready replaced most of the devices that enable the engine to run, it is time to take a good deep breath, and start testing before purchasing another part. Because the new battery sat for five weeks drained, it may or may not be able to hold a charge. Check its voltage output after a charge while disconnected, and several hours later, it should be around 12.5V or higher, less than that and it most likely has been compromised. Have it load tested at a parts store. Sometimes if the points have closed up for what ever reason; not properly set, no lube on its cam, or there has been arcing or cam lube sloped on them and they are burned, the engine will miss, and than the engine will not run after driving a while. Check the gap & condition, and if needed, clean with a bit of 320 grit paper, or a point file (not many of those things still around), and reset the gap. That “new†carburetor that has been replaced once all ready, was it new or new old stock, or rebuilt / remanufactured? Experience from others on the site will tell you that rebuilt or remanufactured carburetors are quite often junk, and to be avoided. Best to locate a new old stock, or original unmolested used unit and rebuild it. Anotherproblem area in old cars is fuel system rust, degraded flexible fuel line, and bad fuel pumps. Check the fuel filter, sniff the dip stick for the smell of raw gas (an indication of split fuel pump diaphragm), and crud and holes in the fuel lines. If the engine can’t get enough fuel it will run rough, pop through the carburetor. An easy way to test the fuel pump is to disconnect the tank line, hold your finger over the inlet to the pump, and have a friend roll the engine over by hand with its fan, and see if it holds a vacuum. Bill |
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| Author: | olafla [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:45 am ] |
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Hi Scallywagon67, and welcome to the forum. All text in red are clickable links. In each section there is a FAQ, you browse through them, most of the info you seek is there already! Start by taking a look at the link New member, tune-up questions, nice title, eh? Start by getting the factory manuals for your car, they're available on cd, for paper copies search the net. There are many ways to attack your problem, but take one logical step at the time, and we'll assist you with the necessary info. I think you should start by adjusting your valves. Because your engine is not running, you will have to adjust them cold, you can remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over by hand by grabbing a fan blade. A valve adjustment should best be done with a running engine, so prepare to do the job over again as soon as the engine runs OK. Let's get it started first. After adjusting the valves, establish that you can get fuel to the carburetor, that your fuel tank is not full of gunk, check that your fuel pump actually pumps fuel, replace the fuel filter, you can do the 'fuel-line mod' while you're at it (see links), check your carb's float setting (links in the FAQ), clean the carb if necessary, and adjust according to specs. When you have established that you have fuel, your timing is set, and the ignition components work, and you have a spark, the engine should start! Try doing as much of this work yourself, it's not rocket science, the main thing you need is patience, and you'll soon get to know your car and engine very well. Keep us posted on your progress. Olaf. Edit: Bill, your fingers type much faster than mine, I didn't mean to duplicate your answer! |
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| Author: | Scallywagon67 [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:15 am ] |
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Hey thanks. Yea I had to change the oil because of all the gas that had gotten into the crank case. It's getting plenty of fuel from the carb. And yes both carbs are remanufactured. I have also by passed the ballast resistor just to make sure it didn't go bad on me. Any links to get these manuals? Thanks guys. |
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| Author: | Scallywagon67 [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Oh and the battery is holding it's charge too. |
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| Author: | wjajr [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Good, battery is holding a charge. Still would be a good idea to have the battery tested for how well it handles a load when you get a chance. Quote: Now it ran pretty good for me other than the carb would load up on me every so often sometimes stalling it out. This would only happen at stop lights. And it would sometimes back fire when it would do this. Nothing loud just a little pop.
Quote: About a couple weeks after tuning it up I got up one morning to take the dog to the park, which only a couple miles from the house. When I started the car it was missing really bad. I went on to the park since it not far and also to see what the heck was going on. Well it was miss firing the whole way there and on the way home. Later that day I could even get it to run.
I think that your carb was not loading up, but running dry once rpm’s dropped off causing a stall, and popping, all signs of lean a condition.Now that you said there was fuel in the crankcase, I would move fuel pump problems to the top of the list. You need to have ballast resistor connected, or coil will be damaged. The ballast resistor steps down the voltage to the coil once the engine is running. The way it works is as follows: when cranking the engine, that is when the key is in start position, a full 12 volts is sent to the coil to help make a hotter spark. Once the key is released and moved to the run position, the ballast resistor is added to the circuit to reduce voltage to the coil. You can test the ballaist resistor's coil by checking its resistance with a Volt Ohm Meter, (VOM) a good resistance would be 0.6 to 3 ohms depending on which one you have. If you get a real high reading of hundreds to thousands of ohms it is no good, the resistor inside is broken and won’t pass any electricity. Another sign the resistor is bad is the engine will run as long as the key is held in the start position, and dies as soon as the key is released. These devices generally are working one moment, and bad the next not unlike when a filament in a light bulb brakes. Olaf: Quote: Edit: Bill, your fingers type much faster than mine, I didn't mean to duplicate your answer!
Thanks, that has to be the first time I have been accused of fast typing. You should see how slow it is using the double index finger method, composing in MS Word, spell checking every other word, copying & pasting into /6, and than more editing… I appreciate that someone is prescribing the same fixes! Bill |
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| Author: | RustyRamcharger [ Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:04 pm ] |
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Hardcopy FSMs are available from www.autobooksbishko.com CD FSMs and FPCs are available from www.moparmanuals.com Ken
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| Author: | Scallywagon67 [ Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Really stupid question here... Where do I need to apply cam lube in the distributor? I pulled it again and so I can check the points Again and I'm going to swap out the condenser. |
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| Author: | RustyRamcharger [ Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:26 pm ] |
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Distributor cam lube gets applied to the six-sided cam where the rubbing block that opens the points rides. Also note that the mechanical advance mechanism requires periodic lubrication, and the same grease can be used on those moving parts. The connection between the vacuum advance and the breaker plate needs to be lubed too. Use dielectric grease inside the boots of the secondary wires. Ken
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