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WTF - WTF - Pissed off and frustrated as HE!!
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Author:  WhaleMstr [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  WTF - WTF - Pissed off and frustrated as HE!!
Okay - so the crappy holley carb I have started backfiring and not starting etc.

So I ask around and finally get what I think is the rebuild kit for this POS
Took it apart and checked every gasket etc as I put it all together. It all seems to match.

Put it back on and all I get is frickin nothing but gas.
I shut the needle valves down to nothing - and I still get no fire at all

I took the plugs out and checked for spark - seems to be plenty
I can definetely smell gas - so I take and leave all the plugs out for the day and then re-install them this morning and try it again for the millinth frickin time and it fired ONCE and still nothing.

WTF

air, gas, spark - should at least get it to fire?? RIGHT?????

HELP - I am so close to loading up both the guns and relieving myself by shooting the hell out of this thing!!!!!!!!!!

holley 500 - 4412 is the kit I got for it
what the hell am I missing??

sorry for sounding so frickin pissed off folks - christmas - no money, no vehicle - can't even go get a tree etc.

Happy Holidays - yea right
later
dan
Author:  carlherrnstein [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:16 am ]
Post subject: 
How is the timing chain perhaps it jumped a tooth.
Author:  WhaleMstr [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:20 am ]
Post subject: 
The whole motor was rebuilt about 5 years ago - everything inside new - so it hopefully isn't something like that?

It was running fine for a long long time - but the carb has always been a royal pain.
Author:  4speed [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:30 am ]
Post subject: 
How is the float level? If you look down the carb throat right after trying to start, can you see gas dripping inside? Which needle valve did you tighten down? How many turns are the idle mix screws set for?
Author:  WhaleMstr [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:44 am ]
Post subject: 
I shut the needle valves down since it seemed to be flooding.
I figured that as long as I pump it a couple of times it should have at least fied a few times and then I would open the needles a bit.
As far as I can tell I have the float right or close - I re-adjusted it at least three times so far and when I open the sight hole it doesn't come pouring out and it appears to be full when I use a light and look into the hole.

It will not even fire if I just pump it a few times??

I tried opening the needle valves( idle mixture screws?) up a turn each - no go - tried 1.5 turns - no go - guess I should try 2+ next
Author:  KBB_of_TMC [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I've seen a single fiber (perhaps a hair?) jam a the float valve enough to flood like crazy. It seemed to have come from the new filter.
Author:  gl/6 [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Rudementry Yes, but don't laugh
This suggestion is very rudementry but should slow down or even stop the pissed off part.

Block the fuel line to carb with a temporary add/on of your choice.
(starve the carb in other words)

Take out the plugs and rotate the engine to dissapate any clyinder fuel through evaporation. Check the plugs as they may be still soakin wet.
(cigarette lighter can be used)

Replace plugs and with fuel blocked try a short start, likely now it is starved OK?

Then, put two jigger of fuel down carb throat and fire it up. Repeat if needed.

Now you will know carb problem as a problem or not. gl/6
Author:  65CrewCabPW [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 
I read this thread and went back and re-read it again... You said "backfiring". That doesn't happen if you have too much gas, generally. It just misses and blows black smoke - maybe even blue, if it's rich enough to wash the cylinder walls.

So, I think you have more than one issue.

Backfiring is most common when it's lean, or your timing is wrong - retarded does it worst.

So, I would suggest you start at the beginning. First, make sure the clamp that holds the distributor is tight, and your distributor hasn't rotated around until you're way on the retard side.

Second, if you have points, a failed or failing condenser will cause backfiring and eventual failure to run, or a really weak spark. ( not to mention, your points burn out almost immediately) Even just the rubbing block wearing off will do the same behavior.

Look for loose wires on the coil, points, or elsewhere in the system, and for a burned out ballast resistor, if you have electronic ignition.

Next, I would look into the distributor cap, and see if moisture has condensed, and is causing arcing to the wrong plug, across the cap, from the center to the edge. Slants have such a low distributor, and in the winter, this can be a really frustrating problem. Condensation is common, and it conducts big havoc.

Lastly, since I"m not familiar with the carb, I can't offer advice, BUT, if it's really overflowing with gas, you can look down into the primary side with the choke open, crank the motor by jumping across the starter relay (on the fenderwell or firewall) and watching to see if gas begins to trickle out of stuff and go down the intake. If it is, your float valve is not shutting off, for some reason. You'll need a good strong light, and DO NOT open the throttle valves while you're cranking it. Backfire REALLY is "fire" and it'll burn you good.
Author:  WhaleMstr [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
okee dokee - here's what I have tried already

since the rebuild of the carb -

I have already checked all the wires - none of which were touched during any of this btw

I took the plugs out - dried, cleaned checked gaps etc - then left them out over night - also ran it a few times to move air through - also blew into each hole to see how much gas smell came out - used lighter even - nothing happened

I shut the needle vales down and did not put any fuel to it and nothing
then I pumped it a few times while cranking it and watched a nice shot of gas go in still nothing

I can smell gas at the tailpipe so it is getting gas when I stomp it - so to speak

The distributor is dry and no sign of anything out of place or adjustment - it has not moved either

it's electronic ignition btw

I have spark at the plugs too - just rechecked
Author:  Reed [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Any chance you have another carb you can throw on there to se if that is your problem? Any chance you somehow developed a major vacuum leak? Have you checked the torque on the manifold nuts (have you torqued your nuts lately :lol: )? Backfiring can damage those delicate little Holleys.
Author:  WhaleMstr [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:22 am ]
Post subject: 
hahah - Reed I've tried tightening my nuts already

I have had this thing off and apart twice now to check and recheck everything with it

I just don't understand why I can not get ANY firing at all now?

It appears to have plenty of spark - but I was thinking maybe the coil is toast - so went looking in amongst my piles of stuff

AND

as is typical for me - I found everything except another coil so far!
I have distributors and 1 barrel carbs and fuel pumps and starters and alternators and all sorts of electrical stuff but still no other coil

damn typical

btw - it hasn't backfired once since I rebuilt the carb
on the sucks big time side
it hasn't run at all since!

After all this time dealing with engines - I figured - gas and spark and air, should equal at least a sign of running which is why this is so damn frustrating

I'm getting to the point where I am going to rip the carb back off = plug the fuel line - and use a squirt bottle to try just squirting gas into the intake manifold -


hey Reed - you ever get to Milton? Super good friend of mine owns the TruckCity CB shop there and he sells solar stuff - he is driving an electric car that his company converted - says it costs him about $2 or $3 to go to Longview AND BACK!!

d
Author:  Andy's GT [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 
First time I rebuilt a 2bbl I put the needle at the gas line in, might double check that? Hope you get it figured out!
Author:  Reed [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
hey Reed - you ever get to Milton? Super good friend of mine owns the TruckCity CB shop there and he sells solar stuff - he is driving an electric car that his company converted - says it costs him about $2 or $3 to go to Longview AND BACK!!

d

Really? I keep meaning to get to truck city, and I see their big sign on I-5 all the time, but I have never been. That's pretty cool about the electric car! I know there is a small but strong electric car following in Seattle, but I quit visiting their website and discussion board because many of them are some SERIOUS snobs. If I ever had the free time and extra money, I would love to convert a van to electric. It would take about $10k to do it right (plus purchase cos of the van) but I would love to do it.

Sorry about your van. All I can say is I have never liked any Holley carbs other than the 1920s, 1945s, and 2280s. I might actually have a spare 2280 under my workbench if you need a different carb.

Here's a thought, have you checked your distributor drive gear to make sure the rotor is turning? I once had a drive gear fail where it cracked in half but didn't disintegrate. It would gradually stretch and get out of time, but if I kept cranking the motor over it would eventually get back in time and then run great, and then stumble, then die, then I would crank it till it started again, and the whole process would repeat again. It drove me batty for weeks until I tracked it down.
Author:  WhaleMstr [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject: 
I have hated this carb since I got it!

When I take the spark plugs out and let them fire against the metal I can see them sparking at various times so I am guessing the distributor is still turning? Everything on this thing was brand new when I rebuilt it years ago and it was running fine up until about two weeks before it really started this backfiring thing so I have no clue at this point.

the car they electrified is a 2007 Acura and it looks good! Not too mention he says it's a blast to drive - heated seats, GPS, blue tooth etc. and it costs him about $10 a month to drive!

I just went all throught the piles I have AGAIN and still cannot find another coil! distributors, alternators, starters, replacement everythings except what I need - as usual!
Author:  72polara [ Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Just a suggestion, but do you have the means to do a compression check? That would eliminate a jumped timing chain as a suspect. Also, have you tried using starter fluid/ether to see if it will fire?

I had a 318 that jumped what I think was one tooth - was very hard to start, popped out the carb, but I started it, ran it another couple miles, and it jumped a bunch more teeth - to the point it was blowing air OUT the carb! Dissassembly showed a ruined timing set, and neat little dents in the pistons where the valves said "hello!"

Hopefully that's not your issue, but a compression check would verify.
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