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 Post subject: no idle plus more
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:55 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''
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Location: Port Orchard,Washington
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fellow slant 6er's this is my first "official" post so bear with me.
I bought a 1983 ram van,5sp manual trans/225 1bbl carb
from this guy in .... Oregon, he said it ran fine,
I test drove it for about 2 miles and it seemed ok but as I was driving it to KF Oregon, I started
to smell gas fumes and my gas gage was going down fast. turns out a
badly leaking fuel pump... had to have it towed to KF and get a new one installed. I left with the shop and told them to check everything out as I needed it roadworthy to drive to northern California/SF bay.
turns out the guy didn't even test drive it as soon as I left it stalled out
at the first light. First I thought well the tank is almost empty maybe that
is why, I filled it up and still no joy, went right back to the shop and the guy fooled around at the base of the carb and that worked long enough to get me out of town but when I filled up next I cranked and cranked it and would not start, I thought, ok well I flooded it so I let it sit a while and still no start Luckily I was at a Pilot gas station and I bought some carb cleaner and sprayed some in the air cleaner and got it started and I roared out of the station like my hair was on fire luckily it got to the freeway and got on without I dying again. I got to my destination without having to stop again but after I pulled into the parking lot, it died again and would not start without help of carb cleaner.

the next few days if experimented, as long it was cold it ran fine but as soon as it warmed up and the choke came off it would die. after reading up I surmised that it may be the fast idle adjustment but determined that maybe the fast idle solenoid may be bad as I found if I put a "spacer" of about a 1/4 of an inch between the solenoid and idle stop it would keep running so I purchased a new fast idle solenoid and installed it but still no help.

I’ve been looking at my Chilton’s manual at the 1980 vacuum schematic
and to me, some things don't add up there are on this vehicle/engine that don't appear to be installed on an 83 like a vacuum amplifier for one example, is it possible this is hermaphrodite vehicle??

any ideas?? thanks guys


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 Post subject: Yep...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:27 pm
Posts: 9714
Location: Salem, OR
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Quote:
is it possible this is hermaphrodite vehicle??
Anything could have been done, replaced, rigged in the 33 years the vehicle has been in existence... if it was an ESC vehicle, the computer might have crapped out and someone decided to install some pre-1981 parts, but keep what they thought might work... time to do some detective work (part number stamp on the carb bowl, what kind of distributor, etc....)
Quote:
5sp manual trans
1983, this should have an A-833OD on the floor...which is a 4 speed... correct?
Quote:
as long it was cold it ran fine but as soon as it warmed up and the choke came off it would die
I don't think it's all the fast idle... I would suspect that with the choke on the mix is rich and as soon as it pulls off it leans out as well... you might start looking for a vacuum leak at the carb base or where the manifold stack mates to the head....


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 Post subject: Re: Yep...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:46 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''
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Location: Port Orchard,Washington
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:29 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:49 pm
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Location: Houston, TX
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What DI said. If it runs with choke on but dies when the choke comes off, you either have a vacuum leak or you're not getting enough fuel. Don't go off and buy a new carb yet, though. If you've already sprayed around with starting fluid and found no leaks (make sure you shoot some where the throttle shaft goes into the housing), then follow SlantSixDan's recommended cleaning steps in this post:

http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59692

If the van was sitting a long time before you bought it, the chances are very high you have some gunk built up in the carb. My carb was only sitting for a year or so, and I had to follow Dan's (very easy) cleaning procedure twice. After the first time it drove fine until more crud worked its way into a bad place. After the second time, I drove it on a 300 mile roadtrip with no issues.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:54 pm 
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Depending on how the fuel pump failed, it may have poured a bunch of gasoline into the engine oil, which would screw up your mixture (via the PCV valve) with the engine warm. Pull the dipstick and sniff it...if you smell gasoline, change the oil and filter immediately.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:29 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:55 pm
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Location: Port Orchard,Washington
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Dan, thanks for the info, I don/t think that's the problem. it was pissing out the front of the fuel pump and it was really bad, I went through 13 gallons in about 55 miles.
but I think I know what the problem with the carb is, I believe the idle mixture screw is completely missing DUGH Image THERE IS NOTING BUT A EMPTY HOLE WHERE THE ARROW IS


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:06 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13115
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Not so fast- some 80s era 1945s had idle mixture srews that had allen heads and were recessed very far into the housing. You should pull the carb and closely inspect that hole before you conclude that there is no fuel mixture screw.

As has been mentioned above, in the 33 years your van has been in existence all sorts of thiings could have been done to it. At this late date you really need to inspect what you have carefully when you start diagnosing problems.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:29 pm 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''
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Location: Port Orchard,Washington
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Reed,
I finally got some pics taken and uploaded see what you think if this is the recessed oneImage

Also, I cannot find any identification numbers other than what is shown in this picture any ideas??


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:57 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:20 pm
Posts: 13115
Location: Fircrest, WA
Car Model: 76 D100
Quote:
Reed,
I finally got some pics taken and uploaded see what you think if this is the recessed oneImage

Also, I cannot find any identification numbers other than what is shown in this picture any ideas??
That does look like one of the carbs that would be equipped with the deeply recessed allen-head idle mixture screw.

However, I think your larger problem is the position of that idle stop solenoid. The idle stop solenoid IS your curb idle sped screw. You say your symptoms are that the motor runs until the choke fully opens. Well, when the choke is closed the minimum throttle opening is controlled by the fast idle screw. Once the choke gets fully open (or nearly fully open) the minimum throtle opening is controlled by the curb idle screw- in your case the stop idle solenoid. That solenoid needs to have the second screw installed so it is held upright. When the idle stop solenoid is correctly installed, the plunger contacts the throttle linkage and controls the curb idle speed. I would start by getting that solenoid installed properly and then check the curb idle. I susoect your idle problems and dying problems are dur to the throttle not being held open far enough to run when the choke opens.

What are all those zip ties doing?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:49 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:19 pm
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http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/matv9 ... t=3&page=1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:20 am 
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2 BBL ''SuperSix''
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:55 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Port Orchard,Washington
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Hello again,
First of all, I would like to address Reed’s question
Quote:
Quote:
However, I think your larger problem is the position of that idle stop solenoid. The idle stop solenoid IS your curb idle sped screw. You say your symptoms are that the motor runs until the choke fully opens. Well, when the choke is closed the minimum throttle opening is controlled by the fast idle screw. Once the choke gets fully open (or nearly fully open) the minimum throttle opening is controlled by the curb idle screw- in your case the stop idle solenoid. That solenoid needs to have the second screw installed so it is held upright. When the idle stop solenoid is correctly installed, the plunger contacts the throttle linkage and controls the curb idle speed. I would start by getting that solenoid installed properly and then check the curb idle. I suspect your idle problems and dying problems are due to the throttle not being held open far enough to run when the choke opens.
I took the idle stop solenoid loose and dropped it down to get a better shot at the idle mixture screw (or the lack thereof?? Once I got the shot I reinstalled it to its original position.
Quote:
Quote:
What are all those zip ties doing? .
I installed a “spacer between the tab the idle stop solenoid plunger sits on to temporally keep the throttle up so it would keep running otherwise it would just keep dyeing at every stop sign/light.
I started searching provious posts that dealt with idle Problems and I came up with these witch I will try in the order they appear.
Quote:
Reed: I think Reed meant to say was; gently turn in idle mixture screws in until just seated (over tightening will damage screw), and then back out 2 1/2 turns). This is idle mixture's base setting, and screw may need to be tweaked in or out for optimal idle performance.

If you find that there is no discernible change in idle quality at or around 2 1/2 turns, and three or four turns are needed, than there most likely is a vacuum leak introducing additional air causing a leaning of idle mixture.
Quote:
[quote The main circuit sounds fine; it's the idle circuit you should be suspecting.
-look down the carb and find the two holes, one small and one real small, facing the sky next to the front wall of the carb throat. Blast each hole with carburetor cleaner -- put the straw directly on the hole and spray for several seconds.
-Manually put the fast-idle cam in place and tighten the fast-idle screw so it'll hold the throttle open enough for the engine to run at a very fast idle. Start it. Close the choke as much as you can without killing the engine. With the engine running, remove the idle mixture needle. You may need a quick hand on the choke to keep the engine running once the needle's out. Blast the carburetor cleaner in through the idle mixture needle hole. Keep spraying and spraying; you may have to spray in bursts to keep from stalling the engine. The idea is to flush the trash out of the idle circuit. When you're done (or you run out of carb spray), shut off the engine. Reinstall the mixture needle, lightly(!) seat it, back it off three full turns and then turn it back in 1/2 turn. Un-tighten the fast idle screw back to where it belongs, open the choke, and drop the fast idle cam out. Now see if it'll idle. If so, adjust the idle mixture and speed to where they should be.
(Use a good brand of carb spray; I prefer Berryman's Chem tool B12. Also, give a few shots around the idle mixture needle before removing it so you won't be blowing trash into the idle circuit.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:11 pm 
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Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:19 pm
Posts: 1603
Car Model:
Till this is fixed, wire the idle solenoid to ignition run. With key on plunger will extend,with key off will retract. Remove screw from idle solenoid inside is allen screw to adjust plunger depth. Image


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