Slant Six Forum :: Sizing and creating a fuel injection fuel supply system

I have gathered all the parts necessary to cobble together a Ford MAF based fuel injection system for the slant six except for the fuel supply system. I have some questions and I am hoping to get some input from the guy who have fuel injection systems before.

The motor I am working on will be a fairly stock street driven motor. Not a race car, nothing too radical. It will be a hydraulic motor in my brother's 74 Duster.

The Ford system operates at 35-45 PSI in the fuel rail. How much pressure do I need the electronic fuel pump to be able to generate? Can I stick with something in the 65-85 PSI range?

I would like to use an external mount high pressure fuel pump. The stock Ford fuel supply system uses a low pressure in-tank pump and a high pressure external fuel pump. Why? Can I get by with just the high pressure external pump?

What size should the fuel supply and fuel rail lines be? I assume the fuel return line should be the same diameter, right? Can I use the stock fuel supply nipple on the stock sending unit or do I need to go bigger? Can I use the stock fuel supply line?

Years ago someone posted a link to a fuel fitting that they added to their tank for the fuel return line. I can't find that link now. It was for a nipple fitting that could be added to the gas tank by drilling a hole and attaching a nut onto the fitting from inside the tank. Can someone report that link?

Thanks! I am truly hoping to get the Ford MAF based sequential EFI system at least mocked up this year, if not installed on a test motor on a stand.

This may have been to avoid having the pump suck up any air. One external pump should work, but I'd prefer mounting it at the same level as the bottom of the fuel tank so the fuel would siphon into it.

If you want to just go with one pump...grab one out of a 1992+ Ramcharger or Van...Mopar uses the "in the tank pump" like Matt
mentioned (but they are a real pain when then go out and you have
a full tank of gas...)

-D.idiot

Hmmm. The service issue was why I wanted an external pump. Will the Ramcharger or van pump work on a Duster gas tank?

Author:	Reed [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:42 am ]
Post subject:	Sizing and creating a fuel injection fuel supply system
I have gathered all the parts necessary to cobble together a Ford MAF based fuel injection system for the slant six except for the fuel supply system. I have some questions and I am hoping to get some input from the guy who have fuel injection systems before. The motor I am working on will be a fairly stock street driven motor. Not a race car, nothing too radical. It will be a hydraulic motor in my brother's 74 Duster. The Ford system operates at 35-45 PSI in the fuel rail. How much pressure do I need the electronic fuel pump to be able to generate? Can I stick with something in the 65-85 PSI range? I would like to use an external mount high pressure fuel pump. The stock Ford fuel supply system uses a low pressure in-tank pump and a high pressure external fuel pump. Why? Can I get by with just the high pressure external pump? What size should the fuel supply and fuel rail lines be? I assume the fuel return line should be the same diameter, right? Can I use the stock fuel supply nipple on the stock sending unit or do I need to go bigger? Can I use the stock fuel supply line? Years ago someone posted a link to a fuel fitting that they added to their tank for the fuel return line. I can't find that link now. It was for a nipple fitting that could be added to the gas tank by drilling a hole and attaching a nut onto the fitting from inside the tank. Can someone report that link? Thanks! I am truly hoping to get the Ford MAF based sequential EFI system at least mocked up this year, if not installed on a test motor on a stand.

Author:	Matt Cramer [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sizing and creating a fuel injection fuel supply system
Quote: I have gathered all the parts necessary to cobble together a Ford MAF based fuel injection system for the slant six except for the fuel supply system. I have some questions and I am hoping to get some input from the guy who have fuel injection systems before. The motor I am working on will be a fairly stock street driven motor. Not a race car, nothing too radical. It will be a hydraulic motor in my brother's 74 Duster. The Ford system operates at 35-45 PSI in the fuel rail. How much pressure do I need the electronic fuel pump to be able to generate? Can I stick with something in the 65-85 PSI range? If you aren't turboing it, the pump won't have to go very much past 45 psi. Quote: I would like to use an external mount high pressure fuel pump. The stock Ford fuel supply system uses a low pressure in-tank pump and a high pressure external fuel pump. Why? Can I get by with just the high pressure external pump? This may have been to avoid having the pump suck up any air. One external pump should work, but I'd prefer mounting it at the same level as the bottom of the fuel tank so the fuel would siphon into it. Quote: What size should the fuel supply and fuel rail lines be? I assume the fuel return line should be the same diameter, right? Can I use the stock fuel supply nipple on the stock sending unit or do I need to go bigger? Can I use the stock fuel supply line? You can make them the same diameter if you want. For a mild naturally aspirated motor, I'd use a 3/8" feed (and that's probably overkill) and the stock fuel line for the return. Quote: Years ago someone posted a link to a fuel fitting that they added to their tank for the fuel return line. I can't find that link now. It was for a nipple fitting that could be added to the gas tank by drilling a hole and attaching a nut onto the fitting from inside the tank. Can someone report that link? Thanks! I am truly hoping to get the Ford MAF based sequential EFI system at least mocked up this year, if not installed on a test motor on a stand. The fitting was probably mine. Something like this will do: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220682/

Author:	Reed [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks! I am getting pretty excited about this project.

Author:	SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:
Spend some time talking with Sam Powell about the fuel supply system in his injected Dart. He's gone through a great deal of work and re-work and re-work figuring out what...works.

Author:	Reed [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks Dan, will do. I'll send him a PM now.

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Author:	DusterIdiot [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:	It's a ford!
Quote: This may have been to avoid having the pump suck up any air. One external pump should work, but I'd prefer mounting it at the same level as the bottom of the fuel tank so the fuel would siphon into it. I have a friend who has been a Ford Mechanic for way too long...he said it is a design bandaid because of how the high pressure pump was designed it has to have some help... If you want to just go with one pump...grab one out of a 1992+ Ramcharger or Van...Mopar uses the "in the tank pump" like Matt mentioned (but they are a real pain when then go out and you have a full tank of gas...) -D.idiot

Author:	Reed [ Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: It's a ford!
Quote: If you want to just go with one pump...grab one out of a 1992+ Ramcharger or Van...Mopar uses the "in the tank pump" like Matt mentioned (but they are a real pain when then go out and you have a full tank of gas...) -D.idiot Hmmm. The service issue was why I wanted an external pump. Will the Ramcharger or van pump work on a Duster gas tank?

Author:	DusterIdiot [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Maybe not...
Quote: Hmmm. The service issue was why I wanted an external pump. Will the Ramcharger or van pump work on a Duster gas tank? Hard to say...maybe one out of a Dakota...Summit used to have a nice inline pump for 5/16" lines for about $60, a few years back I forget the brand though. -D.Idiot

Author:	Reed [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:
OK- I guess I'll have to do more research. I once saw a magazine where they replaced the in tank fuel sock with an electric pump from a GM. I think I have that bookmarked somewhere...

Author:	MoJoe [ Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:19 am ]
Post subject:
I would stay away from the GM pump, I've seen more failures with them than any other. The Ford guys like the "Warblo 255" inline pump, but many are using them with a stock pump as a pickup or lift pump. The high pressure pumps do not like to suck or self prime so if you do not plan on installing a gravity feed type system (sump) to the inline pump I would install a in the tank pump. Ive seen it done both ways with succsess, just my two cents worth. I think for complete stock setup you would be ok with 5/16" supply and 1/4" return but why not run the 3/8" line back and use the 5/16 for return. I am currently running a Warlbo 255 on a ford 2.3 turbo with a sump in a track only car, I will let you now if I have any troubles. I am very interested in your setup, working with the ford 2.3 fuel injection has been pretty simple and I hope that will be the same for you. Joe

Author:	Reed [ Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:58 am ]
Post subject:
Last night I made the nice discovery that the Ford Hall sensor that goes in the distributor will physically fit inside a slant six distributor. That is one more step towards retrofitting Ford MAF sequential fuel injection to the slant six. Now I need to figure out how to mount it and adapt it to the slant six distributor shaft. I probably will end up having to use a Ford rotor but a slant six distributor cap. I think I will be replacing the stock fuel line just because it is 27 year old steel that has been sitting with gas in it for at least four years. I will also be dropping the tank and have it at least cleaned out. I will then run new fuel supply and return lines, maybe out of something other than steel. I did find THIS article where they retrofitted a fuel pump to the end of the stock fuel sending unit in a Barracuda. I might try something like that with the fuel pump.

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