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Troubles still with Inovate wide band.
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44435		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Troubles still with Inovate wide band.
Last Fall the wide band gauge quit working. It just showed three dashes on the screen with no trouble code. So, I sent the controller back to Inovate, and they "repaired" it at no cost. It looked like a new replacement to me. Perhaps one of those silent warranty kinds of things.

It worked then, but was giving me funny feed back, so I bought a new sensor from them, and installed it. Then it started flashing a number nine error code. Their tech support guy told me this was low voltage. The line voltage at that point was 14.5 volts. So, what gives. Well, he says these units are very sensitive to voltage drops, so the best thing to do is run the line directly to the battery. Sine the battery is in the trunk, I took the line to the feed that is directly off of the starter motor, and which supplies all the other power for everything else. In other words, about as close to the battery as you could get. Seems to me a #4 wire to the battery is better than a #14.

Anyway, the gauge now works fine until the engine warms up, and then it shows a number 8 error. If I shut everything down for 5 minutes, and start it back up, it runs fine for the rest of the time with no error codes.

The book says error code 8 is temperature too high (above 900F). So, I am considering moving the sensor further back. This is the manual's advice. However, when I called to ask if I could splice wires into the sensor leads, he says no, never do that, and "Oh by the way, he does not think the problem is excessive heat" , (even though the book says that is what number 8 means), but that the sensor is "taking a crap". Once again, he is also blaming things on poor voltage control.

This is kind of confusing. I am kind of thinking they just have a standard reply to problems. Bad sensor, and poor voltage control. Any insight here? Thanks.

Sam
Author:  turboram [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:21 am ]
Post subject: 
When I had lean problems my wide band also did that error code so it might be too hot. But I have had a controller and a sensor go bad with almost no run time and makes me question the quality of the units, as my current one quits displaying intermittently under all driving, even idling
Author:  Volare4life [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 
wow and i was getting ready to buy one of these off amazon cause of the great price, guess this is one of those you get what you pay for, sorry about your luck guys, but thanks for the insight about the quality of the product,

-Mike
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:19 am ]
Post subject: 
The question is, will the analogue output to the ECU still work even when an error code is displayed by the gauge? And, why does it heal itself. That is the symptom that causes me to question the support guy's diagnosis.

Sam
Author:  emsvitil [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have you tried recalibrating it?


Or try a calibration with the running voltage of 14v or so rather than the 12.6v you get with the engine off.


I'm thinking the heater gets calibrated at 12.6v and when your running at 14v it gets a little hotter than it should.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Interesting thought. It makes sense. I don't remember the calibration clearly. Here is my fuzzy memory of the calibration process. I remember turning it on with the sensor out of the pipe for a period of time and turning it off, and then reinstalling the sensor, and then pushing a button and turning it back on (or maybe the reverse of that) and watching it count down.

So are you suggesting having the engine running with the sensor out of the pipe first? Or starting it up after I re-install the sensor? I have to say the calibration seemed like Voodoo to me. I did not know the purpose of what I was doing, or what was happening as I was doing it.

Sam
Author:  emsvitil [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Outside the exhaust, with engine running supplying 14v or so.


The calibration is pretty simple, just follow the instruction sheet.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/supp ... kstart.pdf
Author:  Sam Powell [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Ems. I have that manual saved in my notebook. While it was open on the computer screen I read it again. They recommend running the ground wires to the same ground as the ECU. Don't you think running the ground wires to the battery seems like BAD advice. Unless maybe you run the ECU wires there too. And then you would want to run the grounds for the sensors to the battery also. EVerything I hear about ground loop noise and good practice is violated there. In my case, with the battery in the trunk, that would be a lot of wires running a long way. That recommendation kind of made me put his opininion in question altogether. What am I missing here?

Sam
Author:  emsvitil [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Are you using one of the analog out wires to supply voltage to the ECU?


I'm running mine as a stand alone system. Serial cable to laptop and one of the analog out wires to one of their gauges. All grounds are grouped together to 1 ground wire.

As a stand alone system, the power and ground can be hooked up to any power source and any ground; I just plug it into the cigarette lighter.......


It's only when you're trying to get the LC-1 to supply information to the ECU that you need to worry about the grounds and ground loops.

If I had to worry about the ECU, I'd ground all the LC-1 grounds to the same point as the ECU ground, then make sure that the ECU ground was really good...

Then add a capacitor as a noise filter on the LC-1 power line.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
It is stand alone for now, but the plan is to use the analogue wire for the ECU once I get the MSII going. I have really procrastinated on that. I will recalibrate with the engine running soon. Thanks for the tip.

Sam
Author:  Sam Powell [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:45 am ]
Post subject: 
EMS, I am sorry to be SO dumb, but I am not clear as to what procedure I should use to calibrate the sensor, (or is it the controller I am calibrating). There are three different procedures described in the manual, fiirst time start up, and two others. I not ast all sure what do do. TMI for sure.

Would you indulge my stupidity here and write a simple step by step process for me to follow please?

For example: Start the engine with the sensor disconnected, wait ten seconds, shut off the engine, connect sensor,(out of exhaust still?). Start engine again? Do I do anything with the button on the xd-16?

Thanks. Sam
Author:  GunPilot [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Some general comments about the Innovate LC-1. I've had two of them and they both worked well. Periodically I would see some goofy readings and then a calibration would take care of it. The manual states to perform regular calibrations and provides a schedule for it depending on how you drive it. But don't get the idea that it's a constant thing - on my first one I calibrated it twice in maybe 5 years, and the one I have now has been calibrated once since I got it in August. It's running on my kid's turbo Neon now daily driving and at the strip.

For my latest one, I'm trying the new all-in the gauge pod version, the MTX-L ( http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php ) I paid $169 from Amazon for it (free shipping) and we'll see how it works. Very simple to hook up and less wiring.

I know Sam has had some trials with his but I think that is not typical. And it looks like Innovate stood behind it very well. I definitely recommend the company and the product. No, they don't pay me or give me free stuff. FWIW, YMMV.
Author:  GunPilot [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Sam, you don't start the engine during the calibration. You only cycle the power to the controller.

Assuming you have the controller wired to power up when the key is on:

1. Make sure the sensor is not connected to the cable or installed in the exhast.

2. Switch the key ON for 20 seconds. The LED (if you have it hooked up) will blink a two-flash sequence.

3. Turn the key off after 20 seconds.

4. Install the sensor onto the cable but don't install it into the exhaust. Just let it hang in the open air.

5. Turn the key on. The LED will blink. When it stops blinking and glows steadily, press and hold the little switch for 30 seconds. The LED will go out during this time.

6. After the 30 seconds, release the button. The LED should come back on, may blink a few times as it's warming up, and then glow steadily. When it does, calibration is complete and operation is correct.

7. Turn the key off, install the sensor in the bung, and reconnect to the cable. Drive away happy ;)

If the sensor is overheating, Innovate has a tall bung that gets the tip of the sensor more out of the exhaust flow. That may help.


-G
Author:  radarsonwheels [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  calibration
The only not fun part about the calibration is you have to remove the sensor from the exhaust so any lingering fumes don't skew the reading.

I've had two LM1 setups, one with the xd16 fancy gauge and one with the simple digital readout gauge. I tuned two cars with the first one, then got a second one to leave installed in my demon.

The E8 is the most common problem I've had. The sensor in my demon (408 stroker smallblock) started having problems when I moved close to work. When I lived farther I ran up I95 every day for about a half hour with a very short commute in traffic off the highway. Once I started driving behind slow suburban cellphone talking idiots with no highway blast I started fouling sparkplugs.

When I started to run rich enough to foul plugs the sensor started to act up too. It seemed to stall around 65% heated up and would often cut out and say error 8.

When I started leaning out the off idle cruise my sensor came back to normal operation. My buddy that races turbo cars said another brand (not bosch) works a little better in harsh environments. He also said to wire brush, brakeleen, and carefully propane torch dry the sensor when it gets loaded up with carbon and it will give it some life back.

Well, sorry for rambling! I hope I helped.

rdr
Author:  Sam Powell [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the recipe Gunpilot. That is helpful. Emsvital was suggesting I calibrate it while the engine was running so the voltage at calibration was the same as with the engine running. That kind of changes things a bit, I was wondering what his take on this would be.

Sam
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