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Discs and spindles
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4474		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Jopapa [ Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Discs and spindles
Will B body rotors fit onto a disc brake A body spindle?

How about B/R body spindles into a drum brake A body?

I want to convert a 1970 Dart Swinger to disc and I'm exploring my options.
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  options, options...
I looove good brakes. :D

I know that B rotors from the late '70s will fit onto '73-76 A-body disc spindles. Not sure if any swapping is possible on early A disc spindles.

Be sure to check out www.arengineering.com and www.moparaction.com for some cool brake adapters and articles on brake swaps.

I have the 11.75" '77-79 B-body rotors on '73-76 A-body knuckles on my '64 Dart with Wilwood calipers (adapter brackets from AREngineering), and they are amazing.

For rear disc options, check out www.tsmmfg.com. I have their 11" vented discs on the 8.75" axle in my '64 Dart. Very affordable if you don't need a parking brake, although they have reasonably priced options for that too. You get to keep your tapered roller bearing axles too.

Have fun, 8) :wink:

Lou
Author:  Jopapa [ Sun Nov 17, 2002 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: options, options...
I've actually looked into AREngineering's Wilwood adapters, but given the price of their kit, it looks like you have to get the Wilwood calipers seperately. I'd love to do rear disc too, but retaining the parking brake would be a good thing. I'll go with front disc / rear drum for a while and see how that feels, but I can't agree with you more, good brakes are definately a worthy investment.
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  can also use Chrysler calipers
Jopapa,

You can also use factory Chrysler calipers with all junkyard parts for cheap, and maybe upgrade to better/lighter calipers later. Check out the Moparaction.com articles.

Lou
Author:  Jopapa [ Mon Nov 18, 2002 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can also use Chrysler calipers
Quote:
You can also use factory Chrysler calipers with all junkyard parts for cheap, and maybe upgrade to better/lighter calipers later. Check out the Moparaction.com articles.

Lou
That's what I'm thinkin I'll do. I want to get 'em set up as soon as I can, since her drums are about ready to go, and I don't want to spend the money on rebuilding them when I'm doing a disc conversion a matter of weeks later.
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Nov 18, 2002 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  FYI - Wilwood stuff
Just so ya know, the Wilwood calipers (Billet Dynalite) are $120 a side, the pads are $40 for a set of 4 (Summit), the ARE brackets are $155, and the Goodridge hoses are about $70 for the pair.

Cheers,

Lou
Author:  Jopapa [ Mon Nov 18, 2002 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: FYI - Wilwood stuff
Quote:
Just so ya know, the Wilwood calipers (Billet Dynalite) are $120 a side, the pads are $40 for a set of 4 (Summit), the ARE brackets are $155, and the Goodridge hoses are about $70 for the pair.
Well it's a possibility. I would be piecing the setup together over time instead of buying everything all at once (too much of a blow to the wallet that way). But I think I'll initially go with the Chrysler calipers just to get it all up and running sooner. Can I still use the same Goodridge hoses with the Chrysler calipers?
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Nov 19, 2002 5:28 am ]
Post subject:  hoses...
You might be able to use the same hoses, but you'll definitely need different adapters to fit the Wilwood calipers - I'm not sure. The Chrysler will use the banjo ends, but the Wilwoods use a 1/8" NPT port.

Lou
Author:  Tim Keith [ Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:01 am ]
Post subject: 
I saw a late model Ford Crown Victoria with rear disk brakes in the pick-n-pull. Can these brakes be adapted to a narrower Ford axle? This axle is not a hotchkiss like a 9" or 8" Ford. I see quite a few of these axles in the salvage yards. Some have air suspension, might be better for some custom show truck...
Author:  Guest [ Sat Nov 30, 2002 3:03 am ]
Post subject: 
This article claims that we can use the taller B-body spindles on an A-body.

http://www.bigblockdart.com/spindles/spindles.htm
Author:  Dart270 [ Sat Nov 30, 2002 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  hmmm
He could have a point. Of course, the web is pretty much all "rumors" anyway, and statements like "the fact is..." should be taken with a grain of salt. :?

I may try it one of these days. His arguments make some sense and there is not that much difference between the spindles.

Lou
Author:  Slant Cecil [ Sat Nov 30, 2002 3:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
If the B-body spindles improve handling, why doesn't Mopar Action use them on the Green Brick '69 Valiant? That car is impressive enough with the A spindle. Is this link saying they would get more out of it with a B spindle?

Cecil
Author:  Matt Cramer [ Sat Nov 30, 2002 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Suspension geometry
I've paid a lot of attention to discussions on suspension geometry. Here'a few points to consider:

1. Mopar Action's staff never really sat down and did the math about whether the taller spindles would force the upper ball joint outside of its normal range of motion. They were afraid the taller spindles would cause trouble with the ball joints and possibly make the geometry worse, but as near as I can tell hadn't done much to check it.

2. A-body suspension geometry is already pretty good for a car designed 40 years ago. I have a picture of a Dart cornering with the body rolled nearly 10 degrees, and the outside tire still has close to zero camber. I'm not sure how much more camber gain these cars need.

3. There is definitely such a thing as too much steering axis inclination. For example, Mustangs have an inclination of 15.5 degrees, which is far too much. 9 to 2 degrees seems to be a range of acceptable angles, with some enthusiasts considering smaller to be better.

The best I can say is that the guy who wrote that article seems to have some pretty good evidence that the taller spindles won't cause any trouble. What he hasn't done is shared his data with us - I would be very interested in a well dimensioned diagram of an A body front suspension so I could check his claims myself.
Author:  Bill Reilly [ Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Difference between late A and b-body spindle
Hi guys. I got word there was talk here about my spindle article, so I thought I'd check it out. I've done street-style testing myself with my own car, full suspension runs through software, as well spoken to AutoX racers on the spindle swap before I had the guts to publicly make such a claim.

At least 2 AutoX guys have mentioned slightly improved lap times using the BJFMR spindle, and the software indicates slightly improved angles.
I'd be happy to post data directly from the software, but I need a ballpark on what info you'd like...the software only outputs to printer, so I'll print what you'd like to see and then scan it. Most measurements can be viewed in degrees or inches, so you can be specific with your request.

I'll guess camber gain,caster gain, bumpsteer, and roll center change over 5 inches of wheel travel(2.5" up and down)? Anything else you'd prefer?

I want to be as helpful and open as possible with this subject because I'm well aware of the skeptics and the rumors spread by seemingly professional writers. A major issue with this is the fact that the geometry does in fact change, although only slightly...If a magazine told you to use the b-spindle and you wrecked your car, they worry you'd try to sue them. This has been said in public forums by some mighty respectable people. My big problem with them is that there are all these spindles out there for the taking and everyone goes crazy trying to find real a-body disk spindles - here in eastern PA, ANY a-body in a junkyard is rare anymore, but wrecked 5th Aves are here by the hundreds with 11.75 disk brakes.
My findings are based on research and testing over most of this past summer. If I can offer any detail on the subject, feel free to drop me a line as well. Bill440@bigblockdart.com
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Dec 01, 2002 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Thanks
Thanks much for the personal response, Bill. :)

Any further data you would like to supply (as you suggest) would be greatly appreciated. Or, if you simply chose to post more info on your site, drop us a note here that you have done it. Sounds like a good swap that at least gets around the price gouging and yard clearing I've seen on these A-body spindles. Please post or enlighten us as to what "software" you are speaking of, too.

I think Ehrenberg and co have chosen to play it safe since they are running very fast speeds, have little time for complete testing, and need the best possible reliability. It's hard to argue with a proven durable design for endurance-type racing. The liability is also a huge issue for them.

Keep us updated and MoPar to ya,

Lou 8)
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