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disk brake conversion and retain 14" wheels
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Author:  thechristopherh [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  disk brake conversion and retain 14" wheels
very new to the forum with a 67 valiant (manual 4 wheel drum) i just bought. im not digging the 4 wheel manual drum brakes. im thinkin manual 4 wheel disk brakes, maybe power? but i figured i would attempt disk brakes first before deciding wether to invest in a booster.

im on a tight tight budget like most on this forum. a search didnt really answer questions regarding my exact requirements.

im looking to keep the staggered 14" baby moons my car came with. but i want disk all the way round. I understand I need 73-76 a body upper control arms. in addition, spindles and the rest of the disc brake components from any late model mopar? the most important question is what cars can i pull from and retain my 14" wheels? also if the spindles change the ride height of the vehicle, i would prefer to stay away from that. (i havent taken a close look at the suspension of an a body since i just bought this car last weekend and have been working like crazy) for the rear brakes what can i pull from that DOES NOT require a different rear end?

also is a proportioning valve necessary?

getting new wheels and tires is not an option as i dont have that budget and this will be 90% sourced from junk yards except for pads, rotors, and whatever is hard to find. in fact i will probably bring my rotor mic out to the scrap yard with me and use any pair of rotors that i can throw on the lathe at my work.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: disk brake conversion and retain 14" wheels
Quote:
very new to the forum
Welcome here.
Quote:
67 valiant (manual 4 wheel drum) i just bought. im not digging the 4 wheel manual drum brakes. im thinkin manual 4 wheel disk brakes, maybe power?
Front discs are an excellent, very cost-effective upgrade. Rear discs are highly unnecessary on most street-driven cars, and the cost-benefit is generally negative (you'll spend a great deal more effort, time, and money on rear discs than you'll get back in actual braking benefit).
Quote:
i figured i would attempt disk brakes first before deciding wether to invest in a booster.
Better: plan out your system all at once, from the start. If you want power brakes, install them from the start. It's easier and less costly that way, because the lines from master cylinder to distribution block are different with a booster, as is the optimal master cylinder bore.
Quote:
im on a tight tight budget like most on this forum
What does "tight budget" mean? How much do you have to put into this project? The answer will determine how best to go about swapping to disc brakes.
Quote:
im looking to keep the staggered 14" baby moons my car came with
If they are mounted on stock '67 drum brakes, they will have the small (4") bolt pattern. That constrains your options in disc brakes. You may want to consider opening up your options by selling the fancy small-bolt wheels and using the money to pick from the (much wider) selection of large-pattern (4½") wheels, which will then enable you to pick from the (much wider) selection of large-pattern disc brake parts and swapovers. However, this will require you to address the rears as well as the fronts, because your axle shafts are presently the 4" (small) bolt circle. So that would entail a rear axle swap or other workaround.
Quote:
but i want disk all the way round
Why?
Quote:
I understand I need 73-76 a body upper control arms. in addition, spindles and the rest of the disc brake components from any late model mopar?
This upgrade path is N/A if you're keeping the small-bolt wheels. You'd need to either get the '66-'72 A-body 4-piston disc brake setup complete — these changeovers are no longer as common as they once were, but I do see them go by from time to time, and new rotors and rebuilt calipers are still available — or you will need to go the ScareBird route, which uses very common, inexpensive late-model non-Mopar rotors and calipers and fits the same wheels that presently fit the drums you have.
Quote:
for the rear brakes what can i pull from that DOES NOT require a different rear end?
N/A. There is no direct-swap rear disc setup.
Quote:
also is a proportioning valve necessary?
Yes! Good selection here. I would probably use their AJP-01 adjustable prop valve and their PR-104B.
Author:  Reed [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
With regards to the bolt pattern issue, there is an option Dan left out. I once met a man at a slant six car show who had a 72(?) Duster that he had swapped to the later front disc brake setup. However, he was able to keep the small bolt pattern wheels by getting brand new rotor "blanks" for the front disc brake and having a machine shop drill them out to the small bolt pattern and press in studs. Unfortunately, I never found out where he got his rotor blanks and I have yet to find a source for new rotor blanks. If you can find a source for rotor blanks and get them drilled for the small bolt pattern, you can keep your small bolt pattern wheels.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I remember that discussion about the undrilled rotor blanks. Nobody's yet come up with an actual source, though; I suspect they may be vaporware. :-(
Author:  Reed [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I still am casually looking. I did look at this guys Duster and it did indeed have the single piston caliper late-style brakes with the small bolt pattern. Maybe I will ask around at some local brake shops, see what they say.
Author:  thechristopherh [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
blank rotors here: http://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/RotorList2.aspx (scroll down, and they aren't cheap -and they are all floating rotors i believe)

i used the scarebird route with my 63 falcon. worked excellent. but they had one kit. for the a body he has "bracket kit" and "wheel kit". There is no clear explanation on the difference besides roughly $300. any clues?

if i did go power what could i source for a booster/master from a scrap yard?? On the falcon I used a geo metro booster/master and drilled out my own holes in the firewall and fabbed up my own lines.

dan had asked what my budget was. On the other car i spent roughly $500 converting to front wheel disk/power brakes -and that was with new calipers/rotors/pads/bearings/brake lines w/ scarebird brackets and used mc/booster. I'm trying to stay as far below that number as possible (hence why im using used calipers and possibly rotors) although i may be able to squeeze out the full 5 bills if need be.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like you are an able fabricator, so it shouldn't really matter what you get the booster from. Any later A-body booster will bolt up to your firewall. But depending on what pads and calipers, etc. you use, you may well find the car easy to stop with nonpower discs, thus eliminating that expense and effort.

I think the difference between "bracket kit" and "wheel kit" is that the former is just the special bracket which you can't get in a wrecking yard, and it's "source your own" for the rest of the parts — rotors, calipers, etc. Contact Scarebird and see what he has to say.
Author:  ValiantBoyWonder [ Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
i emailed scarebird about the abody wheel kit. here's what i got.


on your site it list the brackets at $105. does this not include the drill pattern?

it does


what's included in the $495 price?

all wheel end stuff except hubs and bearing (if you send those we clean and restud them)

i'm guessing that means master cylinder, prop valve, calipers +pads and rotors drilled out to the 4" bolt pattern. (i'm guessing)
Author:  AHamilton [ Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I called Scarebird as well. Their kit will only work for the SBP and you cannot upgrade to the BBP. They do not offer it. You can get brake booster and MC with prop valve. If this was your only choice like some cars, it would be great, but too many companies offer conversions as well as pick a part yards.
Author:  Chuck [ Sun May 01, 2011 10:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I installed the '73 single piston system on my '63 Dart, including a power booster. When I was playing around with a turbo, I had to remove the booster and discovered that I did not need it. My car is probably lighter than yours, but you may not need the booster either. Anyone else do a swap without the booster?
Author:  DonPal [ Sat May 28, 2011 6:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
But depending on what pads and calipers, etc. you use, you may well find the car easy to stop with nonpower discs, thus eliminating that expense and effort
My non power brake 65 Dart with scarebird disc brake kit has reasonable pedal effort with a 15/16 inch bore master cylinder.

The RM master cylinder has a number of MC36338.

71 to 73 Demons, etc, with non power discs used a similiar cylinder.
Author:  wjajr [ Sun May 29, 2011 2:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Welcome aboard thechristopherh.

This winter I rebuilt the factory equipped manual 4 piston Kelsey-Hayes system on my ‘67 Dart with small bolt pattern. Following Slant Six Dan’s advice I retro fitted a later style manual brake master cylinder, and used Reybestos rebuilt calipers.

With non-power assisted disk brakes in proper working order, the car stops quite well with a little more foot pressure than a power brake setup requires, and can lock up wheels if enough pressure is applied to the brake peddle. No problem for a 220 pounder... LOL

I think you will find manual front disks with 10 inch rear drum can stop an “Aâ€￾ Body very effectively.

Having driven a 9â€￾ drum brake 67 Dart for 80,000 miles many years ago, I can say that the difference in stopping power between disk & drum is night and day. 9â€￾ drums suck at any speed over 25 mph, and over 80 mph, I swear make the car go faster when activated… LOL

Bill
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