Hi. I have a '64 valiant. i just replaced the master cylinder and am wondering the best way to bleed the brakes for the new fluid? The old master cylinder was empty. I didn't do an extremely thorough check of the lines but started with the master cylinder as I figured I may as well. If anyone has some helpful recommendations I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks very much in advance. John W.

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'64 signet 200 owner

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'63 signet 200 owner

I generally bench bleed the new master cylinder, cuts down total time bleeding by a lot. Then the good old fashioned pump em up and bleed them

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Annabelle: 1970 Dodge Dart Hardtop
1991 Nissan 240sx (sileighty) Lots of mods
1974 Dodge Dart *Wrecked*

There is a one man brake bleeder that can be found at an auto parts store for about ten bucks if you are solo, as I am, when working on my heap. I have had good luck with them.

Before bleeding, pull drums and inspect wheel cylinders for corrosion, dry stiffened soft parts, and leaking behind the rubbers, same goes for flexible lines, and corroded hard lines. Replace anything that looks bad. Keep in mind that flexible lines should be replaced every ten years.

Where you have a one pot master cylinder, it is very important that all parts are in like new condition. Often after replacing a master cylinder, the new unit will generate higher pressures than the old one could in its degraded condition, which sometimes will cause the next weakest link to give out, or in other words, a total brake failure.

Once all is in good working order, keep bleeding until fluid runs clear starting with most distant wheel, working progressively to closest wheel: rt. rear; left rear; rt. front; left front. You may have to run a quart or two of fluid through the system until it clears up.

When purchasing brake fluid I always get it in the 12 oz jar, that way you won’t waste much, as brake fluid won’t keep well after opening. Although the plastic bottles now used are much better sealing than the old metal screw cans were, I still don’t trust it. At any rate, you can always take back any unopened jars.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

Hi. Thanks for the info. I just replaced the master cylinder. Do I have to bleed the whole system? I know this is the safest thing to do. John.

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'63 signet 200 owner

Yup.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

You should follow the manual, and bleed the new master cylinder separately. It can be very difficult to get rid of all air bubbles later, if that is not done the correct way.

The easy way to do the rest of the system, is by vacuum, at each wheel cylinder. I use my good old hand operated MityVac vacuum tester, with one hose down to a nipple in the air-tight lid of an old jam jar, one other hose from the wheel cylinder to the other nipple in the jar lid. That nipple has a short, curved pipe, letting the brake fluid run down along the wall into the jar, to prevent splashing brake fluid into my vacuum tester intake nipple. I also use a long hose from the jar to the MityVac for the same reason. Then just pump away, while regularly checking the fluid level in the master pump reservoir.

Olaf.

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Aspenized

Your local auto parts store should have Speed Bleeders in the "HELP!" parts section. A pair runs about 5 bucks.

The bleeders have a check valve built into them so you don't have to get someone to pump the brakes while you crack the bleeder.

just my opinion, not saying anyone is wrong, but this is my 2 cents and ive been a mechanic for 8 years.

-first unless you have access to a pressure bleeding machine (bleeds by applying pneumatic pressure through the top of the master cylinder and in some cases like my current machine, applies vacuum as well.) you MUST bench bleed the master.

-to bench bleed, place the master in a vice. plug the 2 holes with the 2 plastic plugs that come with most new master cylinders. and stick a screw driver/nutdriver in the master where the pedal pushrod would contacts. pump until bubbles stop coming out the top of the master cylinder (lid off). 2nd option is buy a bleeding kit. these have ported plugs and vinyl hoses that go into the reservoir. they are usually less then a few dollars - at least from monument autoparts here in california. set up with the hoses going from the holes to the reservoir. pump until bubbles stop coming. now bolt in the master cylinder

At work i love to use vacuum bleeders (the pneumatic powered kind, ive never used a hand pump vacuum bleeder because that just sounds like a waste of time and effort IMO...) - because I am paid flat rate and these are quick and easy. And 80%-90% of your casual daily drivers will never know the difference between that and pressure/manual bleeding.

So to people who are particularly sensitive to their car (or me as a mechanic who feels and notices every slight quiet creak and bump that alot of my customers dont even notice) a vacuum bleeder does provide somewhat softer of a pedal. the ultimate solution, and whats even better then any kind of brake bleeding machine? good old fashioned, 2 person manual bleeding. "pump pumping holding."
-never seen these before. interesting concept... personally me, even if i wasn't a mechanic, would never buy these. seems cheaper to offer a friend beer to press and hold a brake pedal.... plus in the event of brake failure/spongy pedal diagnosis it would be hell to diagnose with these bleeder screws (how do you know the failure isnt in your check valves vs other brake components). Royal HELL.

After your m/c is bled,
1. have a volunteer pump the brake pedal 3 times and hold it down to the floor
2. crack the bleeder open, they will feel the brake pedal drop further, but dont let them release the pedal.
3. close the bleeder valve, once closed tell them they can now release the brake pedal
4. repeat steps 1-3, 3-5 times per wheel before moving on to the next. using a clear hose with a tight fit from your caliper to your drain container helps determine wether the air is out of the system COMPLETELY, but really isn't necessary if you take your time, dont rush, and are VERY thorough.
5. Check your master cylinder between each wheel and refill constantly. If it goes empty bench bleed your master cylinder again and start from step 1 on the first wheel. Keeping the lid on the master cylinder while actually bleeding the calipers will yield a firmer pedal then any other way. (this is ESPECIALLY TRUE with older vehicles)
6. start farthest from your master cylinder and work your way to the closest (the order of older cars is debated amongst many people but this is my preference, newer cars particularly asian/euro cars or domestic cars w/ abs may have very particular unique orders for which calipers to begin/end with)

thats the standard procedure to the majority of cars pre 1990.

How are you guys doing it cleanly? I have drums all the way around and I'm unable to bleed them with a hose connected to the bleeder screw because I can't get an open end wrench in there far enough to turn the bleeder screw. I just have to use a deep well socket and let the fluid go everywhere.

Get a bleeder wrench from an auto store.

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Chuck Rivers, Webmaster

I place the white or grey oil absorbent pads underneath the axle and fold one up next to the bleeder. The 1st one catches most fluid when it shoots out and the one on the ground gets the rest. I find it easier to do with the wheel removed IMO. Just did mine yesterday and i use deepwell socket also.

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64 barracuda
64 valiant convertable
65 valiant sedan
65 signet
74 vw beetle convertable
79 E-250 4WD van
94 dodge dakota

thechristopherh
I been wrenching over 45 years...love the speed bleeders...got a set on wife's harley ....open it up pump till no air , close forget
keep on roddin'

I just got my '64 Valiant back together and road tested it today. During the restification, I installed all new brake parts, including lines, and converted to '73 non-power discs in front and 10" drums in back.

The brakes are horribly spongy! The restoration shop said they worked for hours and couldn't get them to firm up. They said they bench-bled the new master cylinder, but there has to be a whole lot of air in the system to make it as bad as it is.

I heard somewhere that the Chrysler style proportioning often have problems with trapped air. Can anybody verify that?

64 convert-- I have heard of trapped air in the p- valve--- try the manual bleeding method at the p-valve connections, pump up-- crack open a p- valve line-- repeat--- spongy is not good, Lawrence

The only systems I could never bleed and get nice and firm always had a bad component - usually a brake line or master cylinder. Recently, I got a bad brake hose from Wagner; it made in Italy. Its mate was made in China and didn't fit quite right, but worked OK.