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Starter Frustration
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=45201		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  64 Convert [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Starter Frustration
The old Mopar starter on my '64 Valiant has been slowly giving up the ghost, and since I've already replaced nearly everything mechanical I decided to order a new mini-starter...not rebuilt, but new. Got it from highly recommended FBO in Oregon. The order taker told me it was not made in China.

To make a long story short, I installed it and when I hit the key it made one revolution and locked up. Remembered a few cuss words I haven't used in years.

It's 98 degrees outside, so pulling it will have to wait for tomorrow, but if you have any advice or sympathy, fire away.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Frustration
Quote:
The old Mopar starter on my '64 Valiant has been slowly giving up the ghost, and since I've already replaced nearly everything mechanical I decided to order a new mini-starter...not rebuilt, but new. Got it from highly recommended FBO in Oregon.
Don't know who's been highly recommending FBO. My direct experience is that they are consistently full of "manure" and excuses; I don't think much of their products (swapping their not-very-good ignition system off my Dart at soonest opportunity), and much of the advice in their book does not align well with reality.
Quote:
if you have any advice or sympathy, fire away.
Either get a working used mini starter out of the wrecking yard, or a brand new Chrysler starter from Old Car Parts Northwest.
Author:  sandy in BC [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mini starter. Its like disc brakes and electronic ignition.......things that make our cars better.
Author:  Slant Cecil [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Frustration
[quote]
Don't know who's been highly recommending FBO. My direct experience is that they are consistently full of "manure" and excuses; I don't think much of their products (swapping their not-very-good ignition system off my Dart at soonest opportunity), and much of the advice in their book does not align well with reality.


Your's is still working!?
Here's how mine worked.

Start - MP chrome ECU, Accel coil, 1.2ohm ballast, worked fine for 10,000 miles
Change - FBO A688 ECU, FBO coil, FBO ballast
Results - failures in this order, events were 100 to 200 miles apart
FBO ballast-replace with original 1.2ohm
1.2ohm ballast-replacement with new 1.2ohm
FBO ECU-replace with original MP chrome
1.2ohm ballast- replace with new 1.2ohm
MP chrome- replace with new MP chrome and get rid of the FBO coil (only FBO part left) for the original Accel
New results - back to what I started with and have been 20,000 miles trouble free
Author:  65CrewCabPW [ Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Frustration
Quote:
The old Mopar starter on my '64 Valiant has been slowly giving up the ghost, and since I've already replaced nearly everything mechanical I decided to order a new mini-starter...not rebuilt, but new. Got it from highly recommended FBO in Oregon. The order taker told me it was not made in China.

To make a long story short, I installed it and when I hit the key it made one revolution and locked up. Remembered a few cuss words I haven't used in years.

It's 98 degrees outside, so pulling it will have to wait for tomorrow, but if you have any advice or sympathy, fire away.
I went to a wrecking yard, got one for 35 dollars, went to a buddy's businss, bought new contacts for 5, and that was that. It works great. I'm not criticising your effort to "do good", but in doing so, you went overkill. Get a genuine article from the wrecking yard for a few bucks and put new contacts in and enjoy it. It's cheaper and you'll KNOW it is well built before you get it. Sadly, the market is flooded with cheap crapola from people who do not care or haven't the means to even determine quality.

It's up to us to use our wiles to protect ourselves from them.

The plan of getting a w recking yard one is all over this site. You can save a lot in the future by searching, or even asking.
Author:  64 Convert [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:24 am ]
Post subject: 
The problem I have with wrecking yards is there are none around here. I live in the boondocks. The nearest yard is about 50 miles away, so I can't just pop on down and browse the content any time I feel the urge.

The second problem is the outrageous prices charged by the yards that I know. Many will not even allow you to walk around the yard. They pull the parts and you pay the price. You can't look at the vehicle to see whether it has 200 miles on the clock, or 200,000.

The third problem is that I'm nearing my seventieth birthday and junkyard prowling no longer rates at the top of my fun list...especially when the thermometer is nudging 100.

I'd love to physically be able to do the things I used to do, but it would also be nice to be able to purchase what you need when you've reached that stage of life where you can afford to pay for what you can't do for yourself. I'm not wealthy enough to pay just any inflated price, but I am willing and able to pay a fair price for a quality product.

I looked at the Rock Auto listing and when you read the info for the only new starter they carry, it describes what has been done to rebuild it. So, what is it?...new or rebuilt? I was quoted about $250 for a starter from Chrysler, but that sounded a bit inflated, so I went with a recommended source that advertised the part as new, not made in China and priced reasonably.

The strong recommendation for FBO came from a respected member of this board, so I guess even they can be mistaken.
Author:  64 Convert [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:26 am ]
Post subject: 
FWIW...the nose was completely broken off and the pieces are wedged between the torque converter and the transmission case. There is a small gouge in the nose support, but it doesn't appear to be cracked.
Author:  65CrewCabPW [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
FWIW...the nose was completely broken off and the pieces are wedged between the torque converter and the transmission case. There is a small gouge in the nose support, but it doesn't appear to be cracked.
I understand the "no wrecking yards near" problem. Much of my life I've lived where they were anywhere from 20 to 150 miles to the nearest.

Currently, I live 20+ miles, and the two closest have almost never had any part I wanted, as they tend to crush everything over 10 years. I've made a lot of 80 and 90 mile trips to farther ones that keep older stuff around.

Hopefully you can get warranty and get a good one next time.

btw, there's a couple of wrecking yards on ebay that offer stuff at decent prices and specialize in shipping to you. They have reasonable reputation numbers on Ebay, though I've never bought from them yet.

As someone suggested, there's a place in Vancouver, WA that specializes on old cars and although I have not bought from them, my shopping experience revealed them to be reasonably knowledgeable.

In any case, keep us informed, we're all interested, and certainly feel for your troubles.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The problem I have with wrecking yards is there are none around here. I live in the boondocks. The nearest yard is about 50 miles away, so I can't just pop on down and browse the content any time I feel the urge.
Okeh…then get the brand-new Chrysler starter from Old Car Parts Northwest and put it in. You don't need a mini starter. The cars start just fine for many years with the standard-type starter.
Author:  64 Convert [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
The problem I have with wrecking yards is there are none around here. I live in the boondocks. The nearest yard is about 50 miles away, so I can't just pop on down and browse the content any time I feel the urge.
Okeh…then get the brand-new Chrysler starter from Old Car Parts Northwest and put it in. You don't need a mini starter. The cars start just fine for many years with the standard-type starter.
No, I don't need a mini starter, but my plan was to install dual Dutra duals next winter, and since my old starter was fading this was a first step.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dutra Duals do not require a mini starter.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  But...
Quote:
Dutra Duals do not require a mini starter.
His other post said:
Quote:
my plan was to install dual Dutra duals
Dual Duals require the ministarter for a rear pipe to be come remotely a reality.

:wink:

-D.Idiot
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ah, right, I missed the first "dual".

Never mind, then.
Author:  DonPal [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Get a genuine article from the wrecking yard for a few bucks and put new contacts in and enjoy it.
Please elaborate on putting in new "contacts".

I have a dakota v6 starter (from the junkyard) in my 65 Dart & although it's working fine I'm interested in what "contacts" I might upgrade in it to improve it's reliability for the longterm.
Author:  65CrewCabPW [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Get a genuine article from the wrecking yard for a few bucks and put new contacts in and enjoy it.
Please elaborate on putting in new "contacts".

I have a dakota v6 starter (from the junkyard) in my 65 Dart & although it's working fine I'm interested in what "contacts" I might upgrade in it to improve it's reliability for the longterm.
About the only thing that ever wears out in those things is the contacts at the back end of the solenoid that fire up the drive motor itself. These are vaguely L shaped, inexpensive brass/copper contacts under the thin metal cap on the end of the solenoid.

the "new contacts" thing is merely a preventative action, if you do it, it's likely to go many many years. I have had two of the small starters on Mopar products that ended up needing new contacts over the years, both at very high mileage, and yet the starters themselves were in great shape otherwise.

they are connected to the bolts that serve as battery and starter motor terminals on the back of the solenoid itself. There is around a half dozen or so terminal styles, including some extra thick versions that fit a couple variations of the starters. I got mine from a local shop that rebuilds starters and alternators, etc. An auto electric shop. You can also get them online at several websites and also on ebay.

I lucked out in that the starter I got was a Mopar reman, with very little use on it. One of the contacts was poorly installed and was wearing badly. Otherwise, it probably would have needed nothing for a long time to come.

BTW, in MY case, the mini starter cranks the motor over much more quietly and about 20% faster than the gravel crusher sounding original. And that's even after I've upped the compression ratio from a measured 7.something up to 10.5, and yet it cranks over much more solidly and with less slowing down on the compression resistance.
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