Has any one thought of using a large two barrel instead of a four barrel to eliminate the secondary bogging that seems to be so prevailant?My 225 .60 over ,.464 lift 276 dur cam Hyper pack ,balance ported and polished head with larger valves and dual headers into a 2.5 inch single exaust, and four speed is going to be tested on an engine dyno [ before installation in the car] with a Holley 500 cfm 2 barrel NASCAR race carb. These are nice easily adjusted carbs that pop out 500 plus HP on small blocks.Mileage is no consideration for my use, so the two barrel suits me fine. Has anyone tried this out to help save some tuning steps?This car is a 61 Lancer that will be more of a road racer than drag, but should be quite quick just the same. also does any one have any info on the hood clearance one these early A-bodies with hyper pack and say a 3/4 inch phenolic spacer. No holes in the hood would be nice.

if you use a big 2bbl thats been tricked out to make 500hp on a small block i guarentee you'll have problems on a slant, the 4bbl works well because its got smaller primarys then larger secondaries wich keeps the bottom end strong.

a larg 2bbl would be a realy @^%!& down low due to the sheer over jetting, etc that would have to be done.

I have not put my Hyperpak into the chassis yet - I chose to switch back to a 170 to get another inch of clearance ( and get back closer to original)
The 225 that was in my 61 valiant with a 1bbl carter and a 63 air cleaner caused the air cleaner wing nut to hit the hood already.

The Hyperpak slopes up more than the stock manifold and also positions
the carb where the hood has rolled off some. This will make clearance even tighter.

If you have been following DusterIdiots threads of his Hyperpak install, then you have seen his comments about the hood clearance being tight.
I followed his lead and drilled and tapped my manifold to receive the carb
directly - eliminating cliffords adapter.

The 62 valiant I saw with a 3/4" spacer under the 4160 holley carb with a
HyperPak on a 225 had the 3 inch air cleaner sticking through the hood at least an inch maybe two inches.

I have a duster and with no spacer the Holley 4150 and a drop pietin with 2" open filter still bumps the reinforcing rib, according to most pictures you may have to cut a hole for your pie tin, unless you can come up with a remote filter box like the modern FI vehicles use...

I think the 2300 would be ok with a built up slant like that, you're not daily driving it so if it's cranky at the stop light you won't care, but you'll still have to dial it in anyway as no two people have the same Hpak slant build up.

good luck on your conversion,

-D.Idiot

This wont help with your H-P/Carb problem but I would extremeley interested in hearing more about your Lancer as Im building a 60Valiant that will be a corner carver also.Some pics and specs,maybe.Thanks.
Slanted Attitude

_________________
Ive got a slanted attitude and a heavy right foot.

You can't angle mill the intake manifold flange at the head? Those manifolds have pretty long runers, and I reckon if the ports were a few degrees out at the head it wouldn't seriously affect much?
What about rocking the engine over with spacers under one engine mount, wouldn't take too much to get a couple of inches clearance.
I once slotted out the steel brackets that bolt to the block on a 318 so the rubber insulator bolts would allow the engine to "slide" another inch into the engine bay, worked well.

Regards, Andrew.

In the narrow a body (60 -66) one may need the extra height the
Hpak slope gives. Since it is such a long manifold, I believe it
extends over the inside fender and may need the height for clearance.

So mock it up - "measure twice, cut once"

Hopefully next weekend, I can drop my 170 and Hpak mock up
onto the engine mounts in the 61 valiant parts car and get an idea
of hood and fender clearance.

170 hpak, holley 4160, 2" x 14" offset air cleaner fits into the 1961
Valiant without cutting the hood. The Hpak was drilled and tapped to
mount the carb directly to the manifold. An offset air cleaner was
used to set the air cleaner 1 1/2" inboard from the fender. The
clearance to the hood reinforcing ribs was 1 1/2" on the inboard
(engine) side of the air cleaner and 1/2" on the outboard (fender)
side.

I took some pictures (ancient emultion technology) - will post them
when the roll is developed.

Thanks for all the input on the carbs.I have cliffords new hyper pack and a spacer is mandatory. It has an open plenum.I do have a set of hood scoops for a 69 super bee that I may use if cutting is a must. A stock look would be the way to go ,though. I'd rather have sleeper, ya know. I do have the luxury of testing some different set ups on a dyno before it goes in the car. so any extra input is always appreciated. Bye the way the two barrel we were going to use has a dozen metering blocks and jet set ups available for 200 to 600 horse power. The lack of small primaries is well taken though. Thanks again guys

-D.Idiot

D. Idiot , it looks like you have a couple of inches with that set up in the pictures.Who knows with a 61 Lancer.I really don't want to wait till I get my engine back to get it figure out. Thes e guys have had the engine for 15 months, with their race car engines in front of me.They do awesome work but the wait is killing me.The head and the final fit are ALL THAT ARE LEFT.I suppose I could put the 170 back and adjust the measurements.The fact is they did put a 225 with a hyper pack in these cars. Is the new model different than the original with the carb higher up? The only other thing to do is to put a modern air intake system in place. Thans again Man

That's another thing for my list, the pie tin I have has plenty of drop but the top is still crowded into the hood's reinforcement(there's approximately 1" between the rib and the top of the primary airhorn). I looked at it, and a good 'cheat would be to move the battery to the trunk, and put a 'box and hose'+ adaptor from a more modern vehicle like an SUV/etc... to serve as the air filter/pie tin unit....

It is very crowded in my car to work on carb modifications, to make secondary jet adjustments, or certain idle changes I have to pull the carb.
Also think heavily about carb heat if the temp gets much below 50.... It got down to 23 last night and I 'qualified' my carb at a scorching 70 degrees outside, yesterday afternoon it was only 50 out and that wa enough to make driveability 'fun' until the mill hit operating temperature...

Another thing to note is my manifold had the flange drilled for different carbs and orientations, I'd suggest doing it to yours, that will give you back the thickness of the spacer for hood clearance.

-D.Idiot

My Hpak was a new one, that was intended to use the clifford adapter also. I used my carb as a template and center punched the position
of the mounting holes one at a time. Drilled the
hole and tapped it with the size of the carb mount studs (5/16 - 18 if I remember right) installed the stud. Then went for the next stud. The
Hpak drilled and tapped real easy - the position to drill is the item that
needs attention. If you need the hood clearance eliminating the adapter
is an easy place to pick some of it up.

I also had to bend the lower ear on the throttle lever of my carb and
grind the manifold for clearance of the secondary levers.

Wish my pics would come back - I could show you the hood clearance
in the 61 valiant which is similar to the Lancer. Must not be as similar as
I used to think though, if a 225 fits - cause the 61 valiant hood hits the
air cleaner with a stock setup on a 225 - a shorter air cleaner must be
used for hood clearance. I wonder if the engine mounts are different in the Lancer for 225 vs. 170 engines. Enough rambling for now.

Update - the engine mounts and trans insulator were different for 170 vs 255 in the 61 Lancer !! That could have allowed the extra clearance for
the air cleaner by placing the engine lower.

Well some of my pictures came out - Here are pictures of the mock up of the Hpak on a 170 slant in the 1961 Valiant parts car.

<IMG SRC="http://members.cox.net/relic-lover/hpak_kick1.jpg"width=400 ALT="Uses stock kickdown linkage">
<IMG SRC="http://members.cox.net/relic-lover/hood2filter1.jpg"width=400 ALT="170 hood clearance and throttle linkage">
<IMG SRC="http://members.cox.net/relic-lover/h2f_fen1.jpg"width=400 ALT="half inch clearance to hood on fender side of filter">
<IMG SRC="http://members.cox.net/relic-lover/f2h_eng1.jpg"width=400 ALT="over an inch on engine side of filter">

Hi there what type of air cleaner is that? Looks like some k&n type???