Hi all,

Replaced the points with Mopar EI today and now the car won't start.

I did a straight swap with the distributor making sure the rotors were pointing the same way. First attempt to start after the swap, the car seemed to fire, but too advanced, and the engine stopped cranking.

I retarded the distributor rotor a tooth and found that the electrics had all stopped. After finding the problem and fixing it (burnt out fuse) the car cranked but I got nothing. I rotated the distributor a few times trying to find some 'life' and now I've lost track of where the damn thing is. The car cranks but spits raw unbrunt fuel out of the carb.

I now think that the engine is also flooded from all these attempts.

Anybody else know a simple way of sorting this out? I struggle to find any mark on the damper with the timing light (dial back unit).

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
All the best,
60 PPly

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1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

hello. if you remove the valve cover and watch #6 rocker arms while rotating the engine, when exhaust valve is closing and intake valve is opening at the same time (overlap), #1 will be "in the ballpark" of TDC compression stroke. then your timing mark should be visible near where it should be if the outer ring of damper has not slipped. cylinders 1 and 6 are at TDC at same time.

hope this helps, andy.

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84 D100 /6 long rod 225
86 D100 /6 my sons w/offy intake/weber carb
2016 buick regal turbo

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. May I ask how you rotate the engine? I have no bolt in the front of the damper and can't really see where I should be able to turn it over.

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

Incidentally, there appears to be a home made (blobbed paint) paint type mark on the damper that was added during the previous restoration. A new damper with some proper marks will be needed in the future but right now I do not have the funds and just need a way of getting it running.

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

i believe the bolt size needed is 3/4x16x1.5 available at most hardware stores.

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84 D100 /6 long rod 225
86 D100 /6 my sons w/offy intake/weber carb
2016 buick regal turbo

do you have a helper?
disable your ignition system
remove #1 spark plug

either hold your finger over the #1 hole as engine is cranking
or stuff a piece of paper towel in the hole.

crank engine over when cylinder pressure blows out the paper or your finger, stop this is #1 firing position.(watch the marks on the dampner )

align the distributor accordingly(point to #1)
connect #1 spark plug to the plug wire(don't install)

enable your ignition system,
turn key to on
ground plug to frame area, turn distributor slowly -- plug should spark when it hits the contact.
tighten/ install dist/plug---

fire up car--- let it warm up & time it
Lawrence

The "old fashioned" way to find TDC where you have no clue where your timing mark is/should be is to pull the valve cover and watch the valves on cylinder one. As you rotate the engine you will see the intake valve open (intake stroke), then close (compressions stroke) then the valves won't move for awhile (power stroke) then the exhaust will open (exhaust stroke), then the intake will open again (intake stroke) etc... You want to rotate the motor until the intake valve has closed and the exhaust valve is not moving. An easy way to check if you are near to TDC is to wiggle the rocker arms- at TDC the lifters should not be riding on any part of the camshaft lobe, so there should be no stress on the valvetrain and the rocker arms should wiggle side to side freely. When cylinder #1 is at TDC, the rocker arms on cylinder #6 should be tight and not moving.

This will ballpark TDC. To really guage this accurately you will need either a coathanger or some sort of positive stop tool that screws into the spark plug hole. When #1 gets close to TDC, stick the coathanger in the plug hole and watch when it stops moving. This is TDC. Now get a wire brush, some engine cleaner, and a high pressure water source (coin op car wash?) and blast the vibration dampener and timing chain cover. Once you have located each, fill in the groove and the lines and numbers on the timing tab with white-out or white paint to make seeing them easier.

To rotate the engine by hand, pull on the belt(s) or do like I do and use your right hand on the fan blade and the alternator belt (unless your 60 motor has a driver's side mount alternator, then you would reverse the hand position). I have also often been able to just grab the crank pulley and turn it. It makes it easier if you pull the spark plugs first (but that isn't necessary).


EDIT- I see you are writing from a right-hand drive country. Adjust my comments about the driver's side and passenger side belts accordingly, since I am in the United States where the driver sits on the left side of the vehicle.

Hi guys,

Thanks for the responses.

Reed- do you not find the belt just slips on the fan and alternator pullies? I've had no luck trying to do this, even when pulling both of them round simultaneously.

I'll see what (who?) I can get hold of tomorrow to try and help with this.

Also, how do I 'dry out' a drowned engine?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate this.

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

"Reed- do you not find the belt just slips on the fan and alternator pullies? I've had no luck trying to do this, even when pulling both of them round simultaneously."

Try pushing down on the mid-point of the belt between the waterpump and the alternator with one hand and using the other hand on the fan blade push or pull on the fan (if you have a solid mount fan).

Richard

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Maybe you should just remove the spark plugs. Then it will turn easily. May be time to get a new fan belt, too.
Once you get the distributor lined up, you may need to have one person crank the car while you slowly adjust the timing. If necessary there is a second bolt under the distributor that will give you additional degrees. Best of luck.

Yep.

(1) remove the spark plugs
(2) tighten the fan belt(s)

Or maybe I am just used to working on tired old motors that have no compression anymore...

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the responses, looks like I'll be going on a hunt for TDC.

When I find it, I'll try and mark it properly.

I'll have to mount somthing to the cover anyway, there doesn't appear to be anything for reading off the markings except a few white dabs of paint.

What's the timing chain cover made of? If steel I can 'tack' weld it.

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker

Hi All,

I decided to trust the blobs of paint and got the car running! Thanks to all who helped!

Got a few silly problems though. My EI set up is using a lead from the input side of the starter solenoid for bypassing the ballast (when in the start position). Just like the top diagram here: http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/elec/3.html

Trouble is that the starter stays running when the engine fires (teeth disengaged, older starter uses a bendix gear). Could power from the ignition circuit be keeping the solenoid engaged and therefore keep the starter running?

Would a viable fix be to move the lead from to the solenoid output (i.e., from the solenoid to the starter)? Would this damage any part of the ignition system?

I really don't want to have to go under the dash and back to the ignition switch, it's a royal PITA to get to and I want to leave that till I build a completely new wiring loom for the car.

Last of all - can you get to the bolt under the distributor without pulling it?

Thanks for your help guys,
60 Ply

_________________
1960 Plymouth Belvedere 4 door sedan
Stock 60 225
Push button 3 speed Torqueflite
Right Hooker