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Alignment with offset bushings, pics
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46286		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  the_shadow [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Alignment with offset bushings, pics
On my '71 Dart I replaced all of my front-end parts 2 years ago with a good quality kit from Just Suspension. One problem i've had is I haven't been able to get any positive caster --- it maxed out slightly negative from 0 at two different alignment shops I took the car to. The car has big ball joint UCAs for my 11.75" disc brakes.

A couple weeks ago I decided to install offset bushings. I did some research online and some people reported simply installing one in the rear of both UCAs with the offset towards the bushing, thus pulling the UCA in closer to the frame. I ordered a kit (only comes with 2 bushings) and did so.

I took the car in for alignment this week and the alignment guy said he could only get 0 degrees of caster while maintaining 0 degrees of camber! I was really floored by this. The car did drive better however I was just really blown away that adding the offset bushing only slightly changed the adjustment amount, only maybe half a degree of positive camber! He said he maxed the driver's side and matched it on the passenger side. Here at the pics:

Front cam bolt:
Image
Rear cam bolt:
Image

As you can see the front cam adjuster is maxed...seems like he wasn't lying.

I did some additional research online which prompted me to make this post. I found some threads on varios websites, including one where Bill Reilly (from bigblockdart) saying that the offset bushings really only give about +1.5 degrees of caster when installed --- not much especially if the car was sitting at negative maxed (like mine).

Has anyone else ran into this? I've seen several threads of people shooting for 2, 3, or even more degrees of positive caster. What gives? Did the factorys have different jigs for the cam bolt mounts or something that varied? It seems my only option for getting any positive caster for my car is going with aftermarket UCAs that have different geometry built in to achieve a significant increase in positive caster. Thoughts???

OH ALSO: YES the bushings were installed correctly. No non of my front-end parts are worn, bent, or rusted out. When I installed the new kit EVERYTHING was inspected by me, sand-blasted, and painted.
Author:  wjajr [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
By using a second set of off-set bushings, installed so front of UCA projects outward from its attachment point, and rear pulls in closer to frame you will gain perhaps 3 degrees more caster in + direction, and still keep proper camber adjustment.

I did this repair several years ago, but it still wasn’t enough to correct my caster problem.

Stay away from UCA CAP Products, I have since learned that they may fail where tubular arm is welded to ring that ball joint screws into. I have not experienced this, but SSDan alerted me to this deficiency. If you shop for tubular UC you will see that some of them have additional bracing or gusseting where needed.

Bill
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Shadow,

It could be certain cars will not allow that much adjustment. You will get a significant gain from using both bushings (rears installed opposite of fronts) to gain max caster. I have done this on the 3 cars I've used this trick on and I've not had trouble getting +2 or even +3 caster and 0.5-1 neg camber. I would try the rear bushing and see how that goes.

Next up would be UCAs from Firmfeel.com or Bill Reilly.

Cheers,

Lou
Author:  the_shadow [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's what I was afraid of --- it was a huge pain to remove the UCA's off the car (even had to release the torsion bar tension!) but it looks like I need to take them off again and install offset bushings in the front as they're already installed on the rear. I'll see what I can do. Thanks guys.
Author:  wjajr [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
the_shadow:
Quote:
That's what I was afraid of --- it was a huge pain to remove the UCA's off the car (even had to release the torsion bar tension!)
Second time around is much easer coming apart.

You can support the lower control arm with wood blocking high enough to be able to remove tire & wheel, and not need to back off torsion bar. But, the car has to be well supported, and rear wheels chocked so it dose not move.

Once upper ball joint is separated from spindle, it will lean off to one side making an easy job of removing upper control arm with ball joint intact. Press out the old bushing, and properly align new off set bushings and put it all back together. By having upper control arm more or less at its normal ride height, the bushings will not be stressed once installed.

You can make a tool from 3/8th inch or 5/16th “ bolt & coupling nut that has had a little angle ground off it that can be used to push both ball joints apart. Remove upper ball joint nut, flip it over so castling is facing up and turn nut on until it is even with end of its threaded stud. Shim lower ball joint’s threaded stud with a few washers so not to bugger the threads. Give upper end of spindle a whack with a hammer while force from tool is exerted, and ball joint should easily pop apart.

Bill
Author:  Dart270 [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bill, I love your idea for getting the UBJ loose! Tech tip of the month for me....

Shadow, Yep, best to just put the other set of offsets in there and be done with it. -0.5 camber and +1 caster will be significantly better than stock settings and won't be much different than +2 caster.

Lou
Author:  wjajr [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Bill, I love your idea for getting the UBJ loose! Tech tip of the month for me....
Lou,
I ain’t no rocket scientist when it comes to making up tools, but I can read pictures real well in several languages, even black & white! Its right out of my 1967 Factory Service Manual, page 2-11. LOL

I like to use tools that don’t involve BF Hammers if possible. Once some strain is exerted on ball joint’s shaft it will sometimes just pop apart if it has recently been apart, if not, a well placed tap on the casting holding the shaft will shake it loose, and no pickle fork dust cup damage.
Author:  Dart270 [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Yep, I've used the hammer tap on the knuckle trick before too. Guess I better read that FSM more carefully...

Lou
Author:  Doc [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:13 am ]
Post subject: 
I have successfully change UCA bushings with-out removing the UCA from the vehicle, by using a special (home-made) sleeve and screw.

Jack-up and support the vehicle, unload the torsion bar, remove the shock and remove the UCA cam bolts and washers. Pry the UCA out of the "saddles and the whole UCA/spindle assembly flops outward enough to pivot the UCA around to get access to the bushings.
Set-up the "puller / installer tool and change the bushing(s).

One other tip, you can get more positive caster by pulling the LCA forward. One common "trick is to add a second thick flat washer to the front of the strut rod bushing and "over-crush" it.... this pulls the LCA assembly forward. There are also adjustable length strut rods offered ($$) and I have even seen factory strut rods "trimmed" on a lathe, to make then "act" shorter.
Just some ideas.
DD

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