Slant Six Forum :: To Doug Dutra or another that has made an EFI conversion

Roger, Actually, so far everything is working out very well. If what you mean by “limp mode” is the sequential ECM defaulting to batch fire, then yes and I’m going to stick with that. Makes life a lot easier in my opinion. The ECM will still go into closed loop under these conditions and behaves like my 1227065 batch fire ECM. I’m using the later ’86-’87 Buick turbo sequential ECM (1227148). It has much more chip and scan tool support than the earlier ’84-’85 Buick turbo sequential ECM (1227059).
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Yes, that's what I was referring to. I'm not sure why you aren't pushing to get the sequential working, though. I would think it would be much more efficient than the batch fire. I can see where it would be beneficial for the use of a pressurized engine, and maybe that's what you're ultimately after.
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I’ve got the knock detector and ESC working, and even have a scheme so that I can “dial in” the timing advance and fuel mixture independently right from the dash. To do this I’ll be using two ECMs. One ECM for fuel and boost, and the other for ignition.
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Whoa! Talk about a wiring maze! I'm guessing you've figured out how to fool the "ignition" ECM as far as throttle position, and you could use the output of the O2 sensor for both ECM's, (am I close?) The fuel mixture was already addressed using the 10K pot in place of coolant temp, or have you come up with something different?
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I just have to mount the turbo in place and fab the exhaust. But I’m afraid I don’t get things done as quickly as I would like.
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I wish I could get things done at record pace, too, but my personal plans always seem to get pushed onto the back burner, and it's now looking like they may get delayed an additional year, unless something changes in the near future. (I'm in the Nat'l guard, and am not at liberty to say what might delay things that long. <hint, hint>)

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How are you coming along with your supercharged EFI project?
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Manifold fully modified/fabricated, still playing with different brands of "production" fuel rails to see what can be used effectively out of the salvage yards. Got a bit side-tracked, as I ran across a great deal on a '70 Swinger with a 198 in it for $75. I get the engine & trans, and the rest goes to a work-mates 16-year old son for a 440/auto conversion.

Still in search of an axial type supercharger....you got one in your back pocket I can get cheap?

Bob D

Author:	jedimaster [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	To Doug Dutra or another that has made an EFI conversion
I am going to hang on to getting the turbo and try a swing at making an EFI conversion, eventually leading to a turbo intercooler setup. I have read all the articles here on doing an EFI conversion and I think I shouldn't have much of a problem doing all of the work myself. A question about the manifold setup. I will be using the same cast 1bbl manny for my efi setup as Doug's in the article. So to my understanding, you took some brass fittings, opened them up to match the size of the Fuel injectors. Drilled a hole in the the Manny at 45 degrees, ground it down a bit to allow for a deeper screw in tapped the hole in the manny to accept the modified brass fitting, screwed it in and epoxied it and viola. Is that about it or am I missing something As for the fuel injectors themselves. How easy are they to take off a donor car in a junk yard and will I damage them? How exactly do the fuel injectors stay in the "home made bosses"? I will be stripping the FI stuff from 3.8 GM like in the other FI article. Now onto the fuel rail.... Have you gotten that far or no? I am just trying to work out all the details of doing an efi conversion myself before putting off what I really want to do..a turbo. Although I must say a turbo fuelie is a neat little project. ps. to those that have fuel injected slants how are they running if at all, and has anyone here done the conversion using the guidlines here?

Author:	Al T [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 11:58 am ]
Post subject:	Done EFI work
Have you looked at what I did? http://www.mopars.org/tools/bigred/bigredhome.html

Author:	jedimaster [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:
looking at it now. How much in parts do you figure the fi system would cost? Is that a batch fi system?

Author:	Bob D [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:
Did you read the entire EFI article including the “installation“ section? I’m just surprised that you ask whether anyone has done the conversion and if it is running. The article was written a couple of years ago and the car was running then and is still running. I can tell you that you can’t just do that EFI conversion and then just put a turbo on it. You have to provide more fuel for a turbo. That means different injectors and a different ECM at a minimum. I’m doing this now and should be done by this spring. If you have some specific questions I’ll be glad to try and answer them. But, since I haven’t finished the turbo project yet the answers I’ll give aren’t tried and proven. Al T has supercharged an EFI conversion. Bob D

Author:	jedimaster [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:
Yep I read the whole thing, was just wondering if anyone else was running the same setup. I figured as much about the new injectors once a turbo is installed. After reading a bunch of efi conversions I think I am gonna pass on the efi setup for now. Instead I think I'll continue on towards a turbo carb setup. I think I my buy a 500 cfm 2 barrel for now to stay me over. And just keep my eyes open for a b4black drawthru setup.

Slant Six Forum https://slantsix.org/forum/

To Doug Dutra or another that has made an EFI conversion https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4650	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Bob D [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Keep an eye on the "parts for sale" forum on www.turbobuick.com and www.turbobuicks.com and you might eventually find what you're looking for. Good luck. Bob D

Author:	GTS225 [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:
Speaking of this, Bob. How's it coming on the batch-to-sequential evolution? Still stuck in the limp mode with the later ECM? Roger

Author:	jedimaster [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:
I had a couple of nibbles on there, almost bought one but he wanted a shade more than what I have to spend so I had to pass it up.

Author:	Bob D [ Sun Dec 15, 2002 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:
Roger, Actually, so far everything is working out very well. If what you mean by “limp mode” is the sequential ECM defaulting to batch fire, then yes and I’m going to stick with that. Makes life a lot easier in my opinion. The ECM will still go into closed loop under these conditions and behaves like my 1227065 batch fire ECM. I’m using the later ’86-’87 Buick turbo sequential ECM (1227148). It has much more chip and scan tool support than the earlier ’84-’85 Buick turbo sequential ECM (1227059). I’ve got the knock detector and ESC working, and even have a scheme so that I can “dial in” the timing advance and fuel mixture independently right from the dash. To do this I’ll be using two ECMs. One ECM for fuel and boost, and the other for ignition. I just have to mount the turbo in place and fab the exhaust. But I’m afraid I don’t get things done as quickly as I would like. How are you coming along with your supercharged EFI project? Bob D

Author:	Dart270 [ Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:56 am ]
Post subject:	another log...
Guys, Just to throw another log on the fire. I just ordered a MegaSquirt DIY EFI computer and power relay kit (http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html) for $172 with shipping. They send you all parts and you assemble it. It runs in batch mode and has a built in 2.5bar MAP sensor. Program with a laptop using downloaded software. Can run TBI or multi-point and can use wideband O2 sensor if desired. I'll put this on my '64 Dart first to run the Holley TBI I have on it (now has junky computer) - let y'all know how it goes... Cheers, Lou

Author:	GTS225 [ Mon Dec 16, 2002 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Roger, Actually, so far everything is working out very well. If what you mean by “limp mode” is the sequential ECM defaulting to batch fire, then yes and I’m going to stick with that. Makes life a lot easier in my opinion. The ECM will still go into closed loop under these conditions and behaves like my 1227065 batch fire ECM. I’m using the later ’86-’87 Buick turbo sequential ECM (1227148). It has much more chip and scan tool support than the earlier ’84-’85 Buick turbo sequential ECM (1227059). *********************************************************** Yes, that's what I was referring to. I'm not sure why you aren't pushing to get the sequential working, though. I would think it would be much more efficient than the batch fire. I can see where it would be beneficial for the use of a pressurized engine, and maybe that's what you're ultimately after. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I’ve got the knock detector and ESC working, and even have a scheme so that I can “dial in” the timing advance and fuel mixture independently right from the dash. To do this I’ll be using two ECMs. One ECM for fuel and boost, and the other for ignition. ********************************************************* Whoa! Talk about a wiring maze! I'm guessing you've figured out how to fool the "ignition" ECM as far as throttle position, and you could use the output of the O2 sensor for both ECM's, (am I close?) The fuel mixture was already addressed using the 10K pot in place of coolant temp, or have you come up with something different? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just have to mount the turbo in place and fab the exhaust. But I’m afraid I don’t get things done as quickly as I would like. ********************************************************* I wish I could get things done at record pace, too, but my personal plans always seem to get pushed onto the back burner, and it's now looking like they may get delayed an additional year, unless something changes in the near future. (I'm in the Nat'l guard, and am not at liberty to say what might delay things that long. <hint, hint>) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How are you coming along with your supercharged EFI project? *********************************************************** Manifold fully modified/fabricated, still playing with different brands of "production" fuel rails to see what can be used effectively out of the salvage yards. Got a bit side-tracked, as I ran across a great deal on a '70 Swinger with a 198 in it for $75. I get the engine & trans, and the rest goes to a work-mates 16-year old son for a 440/auto conversion. Still in search of an axial type supercharger....you got one in your back pocket I can get cheap? Bob D

Author:	Bob D [ Mon Dec 16, 2002 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Lou, That does sound like a real good price for a programable ECM. Sounds like a lot of fun to build and program as well. Maybe as much fun as using junk yard parts! Roger is going to be after you for going with batch fire though. Roger, The reason that I don't go with sequential is the crank trigger, cam position sensor hassle. Just not worth the trouble in my opinion. Using a separate ECM for ignition won't require too much wiring. Unless I'm mistaking the ECM only uses RPM, the signal from the knock detector/ESC and perhaps the TPS to determine timing. I could be wrong here but will find out soon. All of the wires for ignition that went to the first ECM now go to the second one instead. Besides wire is cheap and bundles nicely. Bob D P.S. If your wondering what happened to the text in your post when you quoted me it was because I originally wrote it in word and then inserted it using Ctrl V. Guess I won't try that too often!

Author:	GTS225 [ Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Roger, The reason that I don't go with sequential is the crank trigger, cam position sensor hassle. Just not worth the trouble in my opinion. *********************************************************** DOH!!! Sheesh, I should have figgered that one out on my own. Completely forgot about the crank trigger stuff. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using a separate ECM for ignition won't require too much wiring. Unless I'm mistaking the ECM only uses RPM, the signal from the knock detector/ESC and perhaps the TPS to determine timing. I could be wrong here but will find out soon. All of the wires for ignition that went to the first ECM now go to the second one instead. Besides wire is cheap and bundles nicely. ********************************************************* Well, I was thinking along the lines of what.....25 wires eminating from each ECM, and you'd have to do something with each one, even if only cap them off so they don't ground out. I suppose you could actually remove them from the ECM connector. Hmmmm.......it just occured to me that now you have a redundency to the vehicle. If one ECM fails on a road trip, it's just a matter of swapping the needed wiring over to the other on-board unit. Not bad, Bob.......you design airplanes, too? Something you might want to think about, should your initial plan fail. Might the software in the ECM use the MAF input for a dual purpose, such as computing vaccuum? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S. If your wondering what happened to the text in your post when you quoted me it was because I originally wrote it in word and then inserted it using Ctrl V. Guess I won't try that too often! *********************************************************** I noticed the difference, but didn't think too much about it. I figured it was something along those lines. Roger

Author:	Bob D [ Mon Dec 16, 2002 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:
You're right about the redundancy Roger. I'm planning to use a switch to go from the two ECMs back to just the one. That way if someone else is using the car (That won't happen very often!) they won't have to attend a special school to learn how to drive it. Bob D P.S. If you have to go somewhere and I don't get a chance to say it-- Good Luck.

Author:	Al T [ Tue Dec 17, 2002 8:19 am ]
Post subject:	Sequential vs Batch
From what I've read guys, sequential was developed in order to pass emisions testing at low rpm and especially when the engines are cold, not to enhance performance. At mid range and higher rpms, their just isn't enough time between "engine events: valves opening & closing, etc" to make a noticable difference. At 3000 rpm, the intake stroke happens 25 times a sec. Therefore, with batch fire, the longest time that fuel is waiting around for an intake valve to open is 0.04 secs.

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