1) Bothvalves closed.rocker arms are a tad "loose" so there is no rocke arm tenion on the valves

2) Piece of wire in #1 spark plug hole has come upward to the maximum of it's travel.

3) the dist. rotor is more - or-less pointing to #1 cylinder on dist. cap. ( I have been dealing with timing issues so i don't tknow how useful this info is)

ok heres the weird part- i believe this is the factory 1974 timing chain. the dots do not line up at all. the dot on the camshaft sprocket is 180 degrees from lining up. they are actually inline with each other but that line extends thru the camshaft sprocket mounting bolt and to the outer rim of the camshaft sprocket.. i seem to recall my 1975 valiant engine was the same way and caused me the same perpleximent. I sure hope someone can visualize what i m saying. has anyone ever seen this before ??

You likely have the #1 cylinder at TDC on the exhaust stroke. Rotate the crank one more full revolution and the rockers on the #1 cylinder should still be loose and the dots on the timing gears should line up.

They way to tell is to watch the #1 valves as you rotate the engine. The TDC you want is the TDC that occurs immediately after the #1 intake valve has opened and closed.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

The timming dots do line up together at TDC #6. Silly way they mark them same way with lots of motors.

Richard

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Part of Tyrde-Browne Racing

Right. #1 and #6 travel up and down the bores in tandem. THe only difference is what stroke they are on. #6 is 180 degrees out of phase with #1 in the suck-squash-bang-blow cycle. So when #1 is at TDC on compression, #6 is at TDC on exhaust, and vice-versa. I think Slanty6 has got the motor at TDC on compression on #6, rather than at TDC on compression on #1. Either way, if the dots are in a straight line through the center of the cam bolt, the timing set is installed correctly.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Ok Reed, based on what you've said, I'm starting to suspect the timing chain has already slipped a tooth or two. When piece of wire is at the top of the travel I slipped on my new(read accurate) harmonic balancer on to the crank snout and it aligned with the timing mark at 0*. The dots had already rotated passed each other and both rocker arms were "tight" within pushrod pressure. What do you think?

At TDC on #1 with a mechanical cam that has been lashed correctly, there should be no pressure on the rocker arms. The rocker arms should wiggle about freely.

I think you should leave the dampener in place and rotate the crank by hand rotate it while watching the #1 valve. Keep rotating until the #1 valve has opened and closed, then rotate the crank until the timing mark lines up the 0 on the timing tab. The engine should now be at TDC on the compression stroke of #1.

At this point you should pop the timing chain off and line up the dots on the cam gear and crank gear using a straight edge in line with the center of the cam gear retaining bolt.

How much slop is in the timing chain?

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

Reed , i did exactly what you described with the timing chain cover off. That's how i know the timing marks are past each other when i hit what i believe is TDC. There is a ton of slop in the timing chain.

Well then. Sounds like you have found TDC on #1 and your chain has stretched quite a bit and the timing marks no longer line up.

Go to your local auto parts retailer and order these Cloyes parts:

clo-c168
clo-s338
clo-s339

Those will get you a double roller timing set. The parts should run you about $120 plus shipping. You will have to degree the camshaft when you install the new timing set, so you might need to order the cam advance/retard bushings as well.

Still, there should be no pressure on the #1 rocker arms at TDC. You should check your valve lash.

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Casually looking for a Clifford hyperpak intake for cheap.

I've got those three parts in the garage ready to go. Can't i just go dot to dot on the two sprockets? Please don't tell me i have to degree this set in.(sigh)

And if the chain did jump, that would explain why there is tension on the rocker arms even at TDC correct?

Nope, And Yes! Sorry, the last 2 I have installed were stamped way off.

Rick

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2 Mopars come with Spark plug tubes. One is a world class, racing machine. The other is a 426 CI. boat anchor!

12.70 @ 104.6

Let's be sure we understand that there are 2 TDC events.
TDC on the Compression stroke, there should be clearance in both valves (lash clearance) if it's a mechanical lifter cam.
TDC Exhaust stroke, there will be no clearance on either valve, this is the "overlap" event.

It sounds like you are at TDC Exhaust during the check above so rotate 1 more revolution, back to the TDC mark and there should be clearance at both rockerarms.

As for "degreeing" the new set... you should.
If not, at a minimum, do this check:
Go to TDC Exhaust stroke, where there is no lash, and rotate clockwise until you just start to feel some lash in the exhaust rockerarm. Stop and make a chalk mark on the damper. Now rotate conter-clockwise (backwards) and find the place where the intake rockerarm gets loose and mark that spot.

If the two new marks you just made are evenly spaced to each side of the damper's TDC mark, then you should be good. If not, it's time to pull-out the degree wheel.
DD

Each time I read postings about finding TDC #1, the technical definitions of "how to" are accurate but may be confusing to those not familiar with the "find TDC compression stroke process"
I find it simple and foolproof to stick my middle finger on #1 spark plug hole, crank motor in short bursts until my finger is blown out of the hole. That is the compression stroke and TDC is very close at hand.

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61, 62, 63, 64 Valiants
62 Lancer
64 Darts
66 Barracuda
64 D100
77 Aspen

Thank you everyone for posting... I spent three hour in garage tonight rotating crank over and over and noting opening and closing of valves. I firmly believe the chain must have jumped or that I am an absolute idiot by not recognizing what is happening. I swear that nothing I am seeing going on matches what everyone is telling me , however this engine did start and run as recently as a month ago. It still has the original timing chain on it from the factory in it's original location so I have no clue whats going on.......... (sigh)

I keep seeing this come up, about the timing gear marks, the ones on the sprockets, not being lined up at #1TDC. This is the way it should be.

When the timing marks (dots) are lined up facing each other, number one piston is at TDC exhaust (overlap, both valves should be open). #6 will be on TDC compression (neither valve open).
If you rotate the engine crank one revolution, #1 will be at TDC compression, and both "dots" will be facing up.

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Charrlie_S
65 Valiant 100 2dr post 170 turbo
66 Valiant Signet 170 nitrous
64 Valiant Signet
64 Valiant 4dr 170
64 Valiant 4dr 225