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| What brand of water pump is best? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47265 |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What brand of water pump is best? |
Sages: what brand of water pump for my 1960 Valiant from Rock Auto do we recommend? They stock an Airtex, a Gates, and a Bosch that doesn't look like the correct pump. Or none of these? Do people have a preferred brand? In this car, I plan on (unless I need to start changing parts) using a waterless coolant, since I want the system to be under less pressure and to last longer. I'm using the stock radiator that is apparently (according to my radiator guy) in good condition, now that it's been cleaned and vatted. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:19 pm ] |
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I like NOS American-made pumps better than the far-East garbage you can buy in a dozen different boxes these days, but finding a NOS pump is a hassle. Neither Gates nor Bosch is a water pump company; reject them out of hand. There is no reputation behind either name in this parts category. At least with Airtex you've got a company that spent decades building a good reputation in automotive pumps, so the odds are considerably better that at the very least they exercise some quality-control babysitting and stand behind their product. |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:18 am ] |
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Thanks for the advice Dan. It happens Airtex is the cheapest one, which I obviously like to see, but that doesn't always bode well, so I may go this route. What are some American-made aftermarket brand names of NOS water pumps I might rely on, and know about (for future ref, if I come across any?) Did not mention it, but the water pump I had on the car that was cast aluminum; the metal just corroded, starting with copious amounts of white dust that eventually led to odd metal deterioration and holes that leaked coolant. By that point, I started pulling off parts to get at it. Never seen corrosion quite like this, so I wonder if the coolant was old and the pH balance got way off. |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:44 am ] |
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Chrysler/Mopar, Airtex, Carter, TRW and others. Check with Old Car Parts Northwest, speak to Ray and tell him Dan Stern sent you. I have a few NOS US water pumps on the shelf if you get stuck and have time to wait for arrival from Michigan. Sort of wonder who might have made these. I might be tempted to order the Airtex (or go look at one locally...maybe even buy locally) and see what's in their box these days. Sounds like you'll want to clean out the block while you're at it. |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ordered the Airtex water pump for the 1960 Valiant 170, along with other miscellaneous parts. Just got done flushing the block, and cleaning out all the cooling passages, so after having these parts for probably two weeks now, I was ready to put everything back together this afternoon. Tried bolting in the Airtex water pump, specifically ordered from their catalog for a 1960 Valiant with a 170, and clink! The impeller wouldn't turn. Took it out, compared it to the old pump, and noticed right away the impeller on the old pump is smaller. Did a search on here, and realized the fabled rumors about the one-year only 1960 Valiant 170 water pump being different are indeed true. An impeller that is 3 1/4" instead of 3 1/2". Obviously, RockAuto.com doesn't know about this one-year only oddity, and I forgot about it. Darn! I will be calling Ray, and hopefully he has an NOS one, or a good re-manufactured one. I have a feeling no other automaker selling a "170 cc waterpump, fits 1960-1974" knows about this either. What a bummer. |
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| Author: | kielbasa [ Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:57 pm ] |
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i bought a gates, from my old work, its life time warranty, and if anything ever happens, i know i can get a new one at no hassle from my history at the store. from working at that store, selling ALOT of airtex stuff, i have seen a lot of it come back, airtex isn't very good im my opinion. i know gates is a very big, and take pride in their rep, i don't think they would risk their reputation selling complete junk, so the pumps could be fairly decent, ill let you know when i get the car running |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:15 pm ] |
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Quote: i bought a gates, from my old work, its life time warranty
The lifetime warranty is a gimmick designed to sell parts. It doesn't mean the parts are any good. Lots of very poor quality parts have lifetime warranties.Quote: i know gates is a very big, and take pride in their rep, i don't think they would risk their reputation selling complete junk
Your assumption seems reasonable on its face, but unfortunately it's not, and your faith in the Gates name is misplaced. Gates is a rubber company. They make belts and hoses. They decided they could make money licensing their name to an importer of pumps and other parts. Prestone has done the same thing, as has Raybestos. And Eatkinson, there were never any "rumors" of a one-year-only smaller impeller on the '60 170. It's always been a fact. 3¼" on the 170 in 1960 only, 3½" on the 1960 225 and all '61-up slant-6s of all displacement. Faster and easier than hunting up a one-year-only small-impeller pump: Grind the water pump scroll area of the block until the larger impeller clears. |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:22 pm ] |
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You're saying grinding the areas I've outlined on this photo would be easier? Curious what tool you'd use to grind this down. Between the two circles in the casting that I'm pointing at on the photo here, it looks like for the outer-most circle, I would need to grind the 1/8" edge down and out quite far so the 3 1/2" diameter impeller blades would clear. Unless I've pointed to the wrong areas to grind. Please advise. 
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:08 pm ] |
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The whole recess is the "water pump scroll". To figure out where to grind, apply some kind of gookup (paint, nail polish, machinist's dye, aerosol artificial snow, Eezee-Cheeze…) to the outboard edge and corner-face area of each impeller blade, then put the pump on the block, give the hub a turn back and forth, remove the pump, and see where the gookum has transferred to the block. That's where you grind. If you wind up having to grind the face of the block at all, it would be at the outer/larger circle you've pointed to, not the inner/smaller one. You shouldn't need to grind the ridge on the floor of the scroll. You most likely would need to grind the wall of the scroll visible here at the left of the leftmost extent of the outer/larger circle you've pointed to. A die grinder would be the fastest and easiest way, but a sanding roll in a Dremel tool would work, too. |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:16 pm ] |
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I've got what may be a better and easier idea. Here are the two water pump impellers. Assuming the shaft sizes are the same, what if I just have someone press off the impeller on the new pump, and press on the old, correctly sized impeller? The second picture is the old one, after I wire-brushed it. Doesn't look too bad. Think that might be easier than grinding the block. Thoughts?  
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:23 pm ] |
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Bigger impeller = greater volume flow of coolant. If it's not too much of a hassle, that alone would make it worthwhile (IMO) to do what is necessary to fit the much more readily available (another plus) pump. |
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| Author: | Bruce Pine [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Perhaps an EQUAL amount of minor grinding on each impeller tip would be easier and not decrease the flow amount too much. |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Update |
So, after months of sitting, I'm finally getting around to working on the Valiant's 170 slant. Of course, as always, things happen out of the order I'd like. I'd been grinding and grinding on the block with my Dremel per your suggestion Dan, though the project was taking considerable time (no die grinder available). The grinding still hadn't let the impeller of the larger water pump clear, when I happened upon this eBay auction for an NOS Airtex water pump today. As some really good luck would have it, it just happens to have the required 3 1/4" smaller impeller I need for my 60's 170, so I purchased it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... _500wt_967 I'm just now noticing that the pump doesn't have the metal plate that comes with the new replacement water pumps. But I also notice that this NOS pump body seems to be solid cast iron, whereas the new replacement pumps with aluminum bodies seem to be hollow and the plate serves the same purpose at the solid body of the NOS pump. So what I need to know is, is this metal plate required, or do I just need a gasket with the NOS pump? Will the pump body suffice? Or must I somehow find a metal plate? Please advise. |
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| Author: | WagonsRcool [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:36 pm ] |
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That cast iron pump body certainly looks like it functions the same as the steel plate on the standard aluminum pump. I'd get a gasket & bolt it on |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
You don't need a plate; the cast iron pump works fine as is, with just the one gasket between it and the block. |
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