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No love for manifold studs...
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48651		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Red [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  No love for manifold studs...
Oh well: I guess 11 out of 13 ain't bad.

Got eleven of them out with much coaxing, copious repeated applications of Tri-Flow, a stud remover and a propane torch (MIG I got, but no gas rig).

Any guesses as to which ones were the hold-outs? Yes, indeed: the notorious end ones. One was already broken off when I snagged the head at the boneyard and the other I broke (despite being reasonably patient and careful). So far, I'm having no luck geting the broken ones out with easy-outs: the suckers are pretty much "rust-welded". Might be drill/Heli-Coil time.

The nipples up by the thermostat housing are also being pretty stubborn.

Seems like 8 of the manifold stud holes on this head penetrate the water jacket. I got curious and poked around with an ice pick after finding significant rust on the ends of several of the studs.

I thought that consensus was that only the end studs penetrated the water jacket...or does it just vary, head-to-head according to core shift and all?
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  stud
I have drilled a starter hole (1/8") and kept increasing the size until I could get what was left of the stud out. You just have to be sure you are pretty close to center of the stud. Use a little heat on it and a pick and you can usually "fish" the threads clean. You can do it on the car but it is easier if the head is off.

Rick
Author:  65Dodge100 [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
You may have already tried but I've had some luck heating the drilled stud and the area around it as red as I can get it without melting anything. Let it cool then try the EZ-Out. It burns out the rust or the piece of stud shrinks faster - I don't really know but it's worked a lot of times.

Do not try the EZ -Out while it is cherry red. I've had it work before but it's very unpredictable. It can break the EZ-Out with no pressure at all or turn right out. I guess it depends if you are using a 3/4" EZ-Out or a little tiny one for 5/16" studs.

If all that failed, I'd try the drill it all out and re-tap. A size "F" drill will take everything out except the threads if your hole is centered. An "F" letter drill is 0.257 dia. A 1/4" drill (0.250) would be very close if you don't have a letter drill set. Then very carefully tap the hole with a 5/16" tap. It's tricky and doesn't work sometimes. The threads from the old bolt spin a little and lock up the tap. You do not want to break the tap in the hole but they are usually pretty easy to "bust up" with a punch so you take it out in pieces.

If you have a very fine pointed pick you might be able to pick out the threads instead of using the tap.

I didn't poke around to find out how many of my holes went into water but I know it was more than 2 or 3. Maybe all of the bottom ones go into the water jacket.

Danny
Author:  DadTruck [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Red
the complete top row and most of the bottom row of manifold stud holes on the head for the 83 D-150 are drilled completely through into the water jacket,, found that out as the replacement studs that I am using are fully threaded with with a coarse 3/8 thread,, they would would continue to run in,, till they ran into a head bolt boss or something way inside the water jacket...that would leave about a 1/4 of the stud outside the manifold face...

fixed it by using a chisel to put a real good wrinkle in the thread at the depth for normal engagement... and coated the stud threads with a coating of the bronze colored RTV prior to running them in,,

as far as getting the stuck one out,, can you get it under a drill press and drill it?

regards
DT
Author:  Red [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, Rick: sounds like a good approach which I will try tomorrow. I've already drilled all the way through the broken off studs and really don't want to break off an easy-out in there (been there, done that before).
____________________
John and Danny,

"the complete top row of manifold stud holes on the head for the 83 D-150 are drilled completely through into the water jacket"

FWIW, the head I'm working on is a 2843169, "plug-tube" casting, which should date it somewhere from '68-'75, if I'm not mistaken.

If the stud breaks had left me some stubs, I would've tried the "weld-on-a washer-and-nut" trick, but they are both broken off below the surface.

When I said "11 out 0f 13 ain't bad" I was actually serious. When you consider how many decades the studs have been in there, I'm surprised I didn't snap off a couple more.

Below is the stud remover I used. Works quite well as long as you keep the base of the tool flush against the block (to avoid side-loading the stud as you turn it). With such dainty studs, really is a fine line between breaking them loose and twisting them off.

Oh well, we'll get there...

Image
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Round 2
You should center drill them with a 1/8" cobalt bit then see if a reverse twist drill bit will grab and take them out. If not you'll need a couple more cobalt drill bits and a 5/16" thread tap.

-D.Idiot
Author:  Red [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, DI: something else to try.

Tried an appropriately-sized one of these in a tap handle (after more torching) this afternoon...alas without success. It "bit" into the stud, but I was afraid of snapping it off if I applied too much torque:

Image
Author:  emsvitil [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
A dremel and small carbide bit to grind the stud out (if it broke flush)...

Time consuming, but you won't break an easy out.........
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
You don't need a Heli-Coil; see here.
Author:  Mroldfart2u [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Round 2
Quote:
You should center drill them with a 1/8" cobalt bit then see if a reverse twist drill bit will grab and take them out. If not you'll need a couple more cobalt drill bits and a 5/16" thread tap.

-D.Idiot
Thats what I have always had the best luck using... heat from the drilling AND the reverse rotation is usually enough to get it to spin out...
Author:  Red [ Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:43 am ]
Post subject: 
That DOES sound like a better solution than a Heli-Coil, Dan. Thanks.
Author:  Red [ Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Got the end stud holes all cleaned out. This thing helped keep the drill running true/perpendicular:

Image

Image

I bought this device back during the '70s and the company has since gone belly up. You can still find them around, though. IMHO, they are superior to a similar item (currently manufactured by another company) which allows for angle-adjustment of the base, but doesn't stay locked into a given angle very well.
Author:  kielbasa [ Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
i never had luck with those stupid stud removers, best tool you can invest in, are the matco stud removers. i have a set for metric, and std. very bitchen stuff. and they work as installers as well.
Author:  Rug_Trucker [ Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've take them to the machine shop. How it comes out? I could care less. Their charge is less than my time.

Acetelyne warms thing up a bunch faster than propane.
Author:  emsvitil [ Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've got one of those............

but don't have the box.
Quote:
Got the end stud holes all cleaned out. This thing helped keep the drill running true/perpendicular:

Image

Image

I bought this device back during the '70s and the company has since gone belly up. You can still find them around, though. IMHO, they are superior to a similar item (currently manufactured by another company) which allows for angle-adjustment of the base, but doesn't stay locked into a given angle very well.
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