Slant Six Forum :: That terrifying damn rattle

Digital sounds can be kind of masking, but I THINK i could discern a "hollow type" rattle? I would systematically eliminate the accessories... Could be the TQ coming apart if its an auto... Just M2C...

This is the same engine you had the screwed up main cap in?

CJ

True, so far no one has been able to locate where exactly the sound is coming from, theres nothing loose anywhere that anyone could see and often at times the noise doesnt seem to come from the engine but from just somewhere in the vicinity

This is the same engine you had the screwed up main cap in?

CJ

Actually yeah... it is.

I suspect it might be coming apart but i thought it'd be worth the shot to ask if by any chance this noise might be caused by something else.
Already have another engine in sights (also several disassembled ones) but I kind of what to get the maximum use out of this that i possibly can before it does eventually blow up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiDKN2tJLLo

more of the noise in question.

OUCH quite noticeable in that vid... reminds me of an old 351 windsor I had a long time ago... What kind of oil pressure is it showing? (you are running a mechanical gauge right?) I am uncertain as to what kind of "screw up" on the main cap was but it does sound like a main is not happy... Oh the 351? it ran for about 8 years knockin rattling sounding like death @ any moment, and I was NOT easy on it... But when it turned loose it really turned loose...

But the noise it was making was @ idle to about 1800 rpms then would basically go away. But if you are going to run it till it lets go, I'd start gathering pieces parts soon....

Here is what I gathered from the fotos and correct me if I am wrong, #1 Was the OEM bolt hole is/was stripped out? #2 Drilled and tapped block for another attachment point to secure main? #3 The indexing registers for that main cap has been chipped/broken?... If so, I would say yes that is going to be the noise maker. That being said if the above is true, a pan drop, and a "re-torque" of your "beam" is in order. Altho I have never tried to "fix" a main in this manner, I suppose it works to a degree. Problem actually being is the clamping force has changed because it has been moved farther away from the points of contacts. The torque spec would have to be much higher on THAT side to make up the difference in where the force is applied, as to where its SUPPOSED to be applied. I am by no means an engineer so have no way to say how to figure a new tq spec, and in no position to say it wont work the way you have hopped over the obstacle, as you have proved it WILL work. I am just wondering why you didnt drill/tap OEM hole with a heli-coil insert to begin with? But thinking out of the box makes you wonder, if you can do it on one main, why not the rest of the inner mains and have a "4 bolt" main block to some degree? The hot-rodders/drag racers oughtta chime in about now.....

Author:	mackie [ Tue May 29, 2012 4:39 am ]
Post subject:	That terrifying damn rattle
sup? just got my car back on the road a while ago (9 month winter storage) and after about of month of driving back and forth this terrifying damn noise manifested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JAIRyOd8ss its not there unless I rev the engine kinda high and goes away the instant i let go of the gas, i dont know how apparent that is in the video. changed oils and every other fluid, everything looked good. oil pan is pretty clean as well, no visible metal shavings either on the plug or in the pan I could see (what i could tell from peeking in the hole). in hwy speeds the noise becomes unbearably loud as well but it really doesnt seem to affect a damn thing, everything is still working pretty well... for now the engine was rebuilt last summer so im not looking forwards to going through that again. ill try to get you another video/sound clip of how it sounds like while driving.

Author:	Mroldfart2u [ Tue May 29, 2012 6:15 am ]
Post subject:
Digital sounds can be kind of masking, but I THINK i could discern a "hollow type" rattle? I would systematically eliminate the accessories... Could be the TQ coming apart if its an auto... Just M2C...

Author:	ceej [ Tue May 29, 2012 6:25 am ]
Post subject:
This is the same engine you had the screwed up main cap in? CJ

Author:	mackie [ Tue May 29, 2012 6:37 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Digital sounds can be kind of masking, but I THINK i could discern a "hollow type" rattle? I would systematically eliminate the accessories... Could be the TQ coming apart if its an auto... Just M2C... True, so far no one has been able to locate where exactly the sound is coming from, theres nothing loose anywhere that anyone could see and often at times the noise doesnt seem to come from the engine but from just somewhere in the vicinity Quote: This is the same engine you had the screwed up main cap in? CJ Actually yeah... it is. I suspect it might be coming apart but i thought it'd be worth the shot to ask if by any chance this noise might be caused by something else. Already have another engine in sights (also several disassembled ones) but I kind of what to get the maximum use out of this that i possibly can before it does eventually blow up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiDKN2tJLLo more of the noise in question.

Author:	Mroldfart2u [ Tue May 29, 2012 7:38 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: True, so far no one has been able to locate where exactly the sound is coming from, theres nothing loose anywhere that anyone could see and often at times the noise doesnt seem to come from the engine but from just somewhere in the vicinity Def NOT an accessory noise... ouch.. Quote: This is the same engine you had the screwed up main cap in? CJ Quote: Actually yeah... it is. I suspect it might be coming apart but i thought it'd be worth the shot to ask if by any chance this noise might be caused by something else. Already have another engine in sights (also several disassembled ones) but I kind of what to get the maximum use out of this that i possibly can before it does eventually blow up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiDKN2tJLLo more of the noise in question. OUCH quite noticeable in that vid... reminds me of an old 351 windsor I had a long time ago... What kind of oil pressure is it showing? (you are running a mechanical gauge right?) I am uncertain as to what kind of "screw up" on the main cap was but it does sound like a main is not happy... Oh the 351? it ran for about 8 years knockin rattling sounding like death @ any moment, and I was NOT easy on it... But when it turned loose it really turned loose... But the noise it was making was @ idle to about 1800 rpms then would basically go away. But if you are going to run it till it lets go, I'd start gathering pieces parts soon....

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Author:	mackie [ Tue May 29, 2012 8:10 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: OUCH quite noticeable in that vid... reminds me of an old 351 windsor I had a long time ago... What kind of oil pressure is it showing? (you are running a mechanical gauge right?) I am uncertain as to what kind of "screw up" on the main cap was but it does sound like a main is not happy... Oh the 351? it ran for about 8 years knockin rattling sounding like death @ any moment, and I was NOT easy on it... But when it turned loose it really turned loose... But the noise it was making was @ idle to about 1800 rpms then would basically go away. But if you are going to run it till it lets go, I'd start gathering pieces parts soon.... Heres what was done to deal with that (also damage visible), in case youre interested. http://stupidfusion.com/kuvia/sl6/sl61_1.JPG http://stupidfusion.com/kuvia/sl6/sl61.JPG http://stupidfusion.com/kuvia/sl6/sl64.JPG http://stupidfusion.com/kuvia/sl6/sl65.JPG http://stupidfusion.com/kuvia/sl6/ drove the car around / had the car driven around for a few thousand(?) miles since that was done, no problem until now (incase it is that making the noise) as for oil pressure dont know yet, got the gauge only a few hours ago and yet to install it.

Author:	Mroldfart2u [ Tue May 29, 2012 8:46 am ]
Post subject:
Here is what I gathered from the fotos and correct me if I am wrong, #1 Was the OEM bolt hole is/was stripped out? #2 Drilled and tapped block for another attachment point to secure main? #3 The indexing registers for that main cap has been chipped/broken?... If so, I would say yes that is going to be the noise maker. That being said if the above is true, a pan drop, and a "re-torque" of your "beam" is in order. Altho I have never tried to "fix" a main in this manner, I suppose it works to a degree. Problem actually being is the clamping force has changed because it has been moved farther away from the points of contacts. The torque spec would have to be much higher on THAT side to make up the difference in where the force is applied, as to where its SUPPOSED to be applied. I am by no means an engineer so have no way to say how to figure a new tq spec, and in no position to say it wont work the way you have hopped over the obstacle, as you have proved it WILL work. I am just wondering why you didnt drill/tap OEM hole with a heli-coil insert to begin with? But thinking out of the box makes you wonder, if you can do it on one main, why not the rest of the inner mains and have a "4 bolt" main block to some degree? The hot-rodders/drag racers oughtta chime in about now.....

Author:	mackie [ Tue May 29, 2012 9:51 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Here is what I gathered from the fotos and correct me if I am wrong, #1 Was the OEM bolt hole is/was stripped out? #2 Drilled and tapped block for another attachment point to secure main? #3 The indexing registers for that main cap has been chipped/broken?... If so, I would say yes that is going to be the noise maker. That being said if the above is true, a pan drop, and a "re-torque" of your "beam" is in order. Altho I have never tried to "fix" a main in this manner, I suppose it works to a degree. Problem actually being is the clamping force has changed because it has been moved farther away from the points of contacts. The torque spec would have to be much higher on THAT side to make up the difference in where the force is applied, as to where its SUPPOSED to be applied. I am by no means an engineer so have no way to say how to figure a new tq spec, and in no position to say it wont work the way you have hopped over the obstacle, as you have proved it WILL work. I am just wondering why you didnt drill/tap OEM hole with a heli-coil insert to begin with? But thinking out of the box makes you wonder, if you can do it on one main, why not the rest of the inner mains and have a "4 bolt" main block to some degree? The hot-rodders/drag racers oughtta chime in about now..... ill try to explain the best I can with whatever limited english vocabulary i may have the oem hole didnt get stripped; it actually cracked in two places because of a "slight" misalignment of the cap when i was trying to torque it down the first time. circled those in red. http://gallery.stupidfusion.com/random_ ... kssl61.jpg crack 1. was welded outside and crack 2. inside the oem hole. the rest however is true. and as for the contact points and especially new one, I did tighten them a hell of a lot more tighter that I should of have, I figured the same you did that they would need that but I never did the math on it This was the best I could do with the skillset and experience available, unfortunately. I dont think im gonna bother disassembling/assembling this engine again and just get another one when it goes... -Just gonna try to keep it running as long as I can. and as an afterthought, it was hell of a lot more expensive to rebuild it to begin with than just buy another

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