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Variations on tranmission mount opus A904
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Author:  Koa [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Variations on tranmission mount opus A904
I am always trying to cram something where it doesn't belong. I got ahold of a 65 transmission that I'd like to put into my 67 valiant. This is a down the road project as the one I have leaks but works. Eventually I will swap the valve body and put in a push button assembly. There is plenty info here on that, although I'm bound to ask something sometime.
I'm told I may have issues when I try to use the old mounts. My search has not given any results on the pre/post 1966 variations. I'm sure this is not an original idea. Any advice or anecdotes about what to expect?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
I asked a question almost the same as yours when I first got into Slant-6 A-bodies. The unanimous response from the cognoscenti at that time was "Um…sure, it's possible, but why?!!"

Mounts are the same. But boy, that's going to be a lot of work and fiddlefutzing around just to have pushbuttons! New (custom, costly) driveshaft, new (costly) speedometer cable, figure out how/where to mount the buttons and box (and oh by the way, how are we planning on shifting this transmission until we've mounted the button box?).
Author:  Koa [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank you Dan. I appriciate that I can always count on you for a frank and honest reply. I suppose my approach is to start with the ideal then remove the impossible and extremely difficult and see what options I have left. When I repair or replace a part I want to move closer to my vision.

I know my transmission will need to be worked on soon. Push button selectors are super cool, even "ideal". Custom driveshaft is extremely [financially] difficult. That isn't cool.

I'm always like to know what's on the menu before I make a decision. This forum has been a boon, that I can ask others that have already tried. A wiser person learns from someone elses mistakes, neh?
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:58 am ]
Post subject: 
I have done almost exactly what you want to do.
!966 Barracuda with a 1965 trans, with a 64 valve body(actually a 65 valve body with the 64 manual valve and detent. Also converted to manual shift). Push button shifter mounted in a console on the floor, between the bucket seats. I have a modified 64/65 driveshaft that eliminates the B&T front joint, but that is not required. You can use a stock 64/65 driveshaft, if the B&T joint is in good condition (probably not). Not sure about speedo cable, for the 67 (mine is the same), I would have to look into that
I love the PB shifter, for racing, but with the manual valve body, it is a bit of a pain on the street (thumb gets sore).
I say go for it. I get a lot of comments about the shifter.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
You can use a stock 64/65 driveshaft
You could use a stock '64-'65 driveshaft, because you were working on a '66 with the same wheelbase as the '64-'65 cars. Koa isn't, and there was no driveshaft made for the pre-'66 type transmission output flange in a 108-inch wheelbase car like his. So no, he can't use a stock driveshaft of any year or model.
Quote:
Not sure about speedo cable
He'd need a '60-'65 speedo cable. Available again now, but expensive. A '66-up cable will not fit into a '65-down transmission. At least he's not trying to put a pre-'66 transmission in a '68-up car; that'd be an enormously expensive custom speedo cable.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
My bad. I forgot the wheelbase changed on the Valiants in 67, unlike the darts, which did not.


But this makes things interesting. I just put an "A" body 8 3/4 rear in my 66 Valiant with a 904 trans. got a driveshaft from a salvage yard from a 69 Cuda 340/ auto/ 8.75, and it fit perfect.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Right -- I did a similar swap years ago.

Driveshaft for 8¾" rear axle is shorter than driveshaft for 7¼" rear axle.

Driveshaft for 108" wheelbase car is longer than driveshaft for 106" wheelbase car.

Driveshaft for A727 or A833 transmission is shorter than driveshaft for A904 transmission.

So you took a driveshaft from a 108" wheelbase car (longer than you needed) with an 8-3/4" rear axle (which shortens it) and A833 or A727 transmission (which shortens it again) and…presto!

But there's no such 3-card-monte driveshaft selection available for putting a '65 trans in a '67 car.
Author:  Koa [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks guys. This automotive erector set business is fun to think about. You'd be amazed how often this "available stock engineering" happens in my business of piano repair.

I have found another alternative to get the same result. Imperial services makes an adapter cable by special order. I'll find out monday maybe, if this is even something I'm willing to budget into the scheme.

If it is viable I can take my time putting in the button assembly. Of course the buttons won't being doing anything until the adapter is in place.
Any opinions on imperial adapters other than being expensive?
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Imperial services makes an adapter cable by special order.
It's not a conversion cable. You have to send the pushbutton shifter in to Imperial and the theory is they'll modify it and return it. But Imperial Services doesn't bother filling orders even for parts they keep on the shelf. :-( Damn shame, they used to be a good outfit and the parts they design are top-notch. Then something happened and they quit shipping orders. They didn't quit taking orders, just shipping them. I've known a number of people to order that conversion setup to control a '66-up transmission with a '64-down pushbutton shifter. I don't know any of them who've successfully received it.
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Right -- I did a similar swap years ago.

Driveshaft for 8¾" rear axle is shorter than driveshaft for 7¼" rear axle.
correct
Quote:

Driveshaft for 108" wheelbase car is longer than driveshaft for 106" wheelbase car.
correct, again
Quote:
Driveshaft for A727 or A833 transmission is shorter than driveshaft for A904 transmission.
N/A both had 904 trans
Quote:
So you took a driveshaft from a 108" wheelbase car (longer than you needed) with an 8-3/4" rear axle (which shortens it) and A833 or A727 transmission (which shortens it again) and…presto!

But there's no such 3-card-monte driveshaft selection available for putting a '65 trans in a '67 car.
Dan I am still confused, as to why the driveshaft fit.
I took a driveshaft from a 69 Cuda, with a 340/904/8.75 rear, and installed it into a 66 Valiant 225/904/8.75. Bolt in and go, no mods to anything. By your info the driveshaft should have been approx 2 inches too long (106 WB, 108 WB).
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
both had 904 trans
You found a 904 behind a 340 in a '69 Baccaruda? Final-edition '69 factory parts catalogue says no such animal; only 727 behind a 340. Which makes sense; they didn't make 904s in versions stout enough to survive the 5/50 warranty behind a 340 in '69 configuration.

So either someone kludged together a "one of none" car, or you need a new memory chip.
Image
Quote:
I took a driveshaft from a 69 Cuda, with a 340/904/8.75 rear
'69 FPC says:
108" A-body with 340/727/8¾" has driveshaft 48.88" long.
108" A-body with 273-318/904/8¾" has driveshaft 49.27" long.

'66 FPC says:
106" A-body, 6 or 8 cylinder, 904 trans, 8¾", has driveshaft 49.58" long.

All three of the driveshaft lengths in this post are pretty well interchangeable; the differences in their length are usually not going to be substantial enough to make a "tuff luck, won't fit" situation.

For reference on the scans below: In '66, "V1" is 6-cylinder Valiant including Barracuda, "V2" is 8-cylinder Valiant including Barracuda; "L1" and "L2" are Dart. In '69, "V" is Valiant, "B" is Barracuda, and "L" is Dart.

Image


Image


Image
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:51 am ]
Post subject: 
OK, Thanks, Dan. I was not aware the of the driveshaft lengths being in the factory manual (never even looked).
You are probably right about the 340/727 combo in 69. I did not see the car my shaft came out of. I measured the length I needed, then went to the salvage yard. The shaft was on the shelf, and marked with 69 Cuda/340/904/8.75. Mopar only yard, so the owner is familiar with the parts. Might have been a combo the car owner did, himself (replaced 318 with 340?). Shaft is a larger dia then my 66 shaft, looks fairly new condition, and had new u-joints in it.
PS: Price was right.
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