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Rebuilding wiring
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49668		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Rebuilding wiring
Hey all. I'm hitting a stumbling point in designing/building the wirng harness on my 64 Dart SW.

The engine is from a 77 Aspen and I have the engine harness (and underdash as well), along with two 64 dart underdash harness (and 1 engine as well). Aspen harness is is GREAT shape.

The 77 Aspen has a 65 amp alt. and I am going to install a voltmeter, HEI, Dan's headlight upgrade and an underhood covered box which will serve as a fuse box/junction box and cover up the old bulkhead connector area.

Before the flame throwers get lit, take this into consideration. The old 64 wiring had issues and was brittle and even burned in places.

First question; Has anyone already done this type of work with success that could upload a diagram of the work?

Second; If not, any resources on the web similar problems?

I've got the wiring diagrams a highly acclaimed Peterson book on wiring, and have searched this site and the web with no success specific to this exact situation.

I guess the main question is the charging curcuit. The 77 had a second connection off of the curcuit called, "field load and relay" and it seems I could remove this but want to make sure.

Please remember I'm in the middle of this and it's a work in progress.

Thanks
Author:  olafla [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have a '77 Aspen Wagon, and I am in the process of updating/modernizing the main electrical harness. My choice is to have all under-hood connections separate from the main harness, and only let the wires returning from the main harness activate under-hood relays. The Aspen harness has some main circuits protected by 'fusible links', and as I have some bad experiences with fusible links, I have chosen to replace them with MIDI-fuses. (also used on late-model Mopars) They are so-called slo-blo fuses, that can accept an overload in the circuit for some time before they blow, just as fusible links do. I route all power through a fuse-block from Blue Sea Systems intended for marine use, but having a water-proof fuse block is my personal preference, there are many similar systems for cars. Except for the starter and starter relay wires that are heavy duty wires already in the Aspen harness from the battery, all other wiring from/to alternator and battery are led via the fuse block, where those wires are fused before feeding the main harness through the firewall into the car. The block also have ordinary spade fuses for el-fan, HEI, lights + +. Mounting it this way, the only current going through the main circuit are those carrying a low load.

There are also alternative inline slo-blo fuses from Littelfuse to replace the fusible links, but I guess those are more expensive, and I am not sure if they have any visible indication that they are blown.Cable inline fuses

Re. fusible links in this forum: Fusible links

Blue Sea Safety Hub 100

Fuse blocks

The internet is full of similar products. My advice is to take your time, orient yourself of all options 'out there', and then sit down and design your new system seen from a safety standpoint, with all access points easy to service, and easy to shut down in a hurry. I also have a complete spare Aspen harness that is being modified to suit the new setup.

And for all those of you who are allergic to marine products, Blue Sea have exactly the same product line-up in their heavy-duty vehicle division: http://terra-ps.com.

Olaf
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Olaf.

I am taking my time and doing as you said as far as having safety my # 1 priority. So do you have a diagram of what you've done to your car? It sounds like what I am planning but as I am not so electrically "hip", I think the terminology has me a bit stumped.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
There's no field load relay on your '64. You can add one if you like.

See here for wiring upgrade info.
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Dan, but I meant to post that the Aspen wiring had one.

By the time I got rid of the ballast resistor and other unnecessary wiring from the Aspen harness, I decide to completely redo the wiring. I think Olaf's idea is very close to mine so I will be doing more research myself and checking this thread.

Nice thing about not havinging to drive the car is taking your time with the different aspects of it. The downside is NOT BEING ABLE TO DRIVE IT.

It's been a long haul with her. From saving her from the crusher, various things stealing my time and no really good place to work on her. But I'm chipping away.

Thanks
Author:  olafla [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
bbbbbb9, I have done some mods already, but I am currently rewiring to/from the big 40-way disconnect, to adapt intermittent windshield wipers, extra driving lights, wires for extra instrument sensors, switches, and other necessary connections, while using the excisting wires in the harness as often as I can. There are also lots of extra wires I'll never have any use for, like all A/C, speed control and other connections that can be eliminated. I hope you have a circuit diagram to work from. If you can lay your hands on a '79 el. manual, they contain much more detailed overview drawings of the sub-circuits, both under the hood and inside the F/M/J-bodies.

I'll try to make a drawing, but ideas come along as I work on the setup. I make connection with loose wires under the hood, and then adapt it to the spare harness when I am satisfied with the layout. I remove the wire connections carefully from the big connectors in the harness, and mark every removed wire with essential info for later use. I'll rewrap the whole harness when I feel that I have the routing of most wires under control. In the meantime, I have a lot of loose papers with color codes for the new adaption of the wires in the harness, finally coupling it all together will be an exciting moment!

I also have a 3-wire 105 Amp GM 12si alternator to replace the original that has a defect diode. It will have it's wires drawn separately to the fuse block, without being integrated into the harness. I also remove most of the original ignition wiring in the harness, in favour of a separate circuit for the simple relay triggered HEI ignition setup I already have. (see the electrical FAQ)

But, unlike you, I have the advantage of being able to drive while working on the extra harness! :mrgreen:

Olaf
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Thanks Dan, but I meant to post that the Aspen wiring had one.
I understood that -- I was saying you can add one to the Dart if you wish.
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
bbbbbb9, I have done some mods already, but I am currently rewiring to/from the big 40-way disconnect, to adapt intermittent windshield wipers, extra driving lights, wires for extra instrument sensors, switches, and other necessary connections, while using the excisting wires in the harness as often as I can. There are also lots of extra wires I'll never have any use for, like all A/C, speed control and other connections that can be eliminated. I hope you have a circuit diagram to work from. If you can lay your hands on a '79 el. manual, they contain much more detailed overview drawings of the sub-circuits, both under the hood and inside the F/M/J-bodies.

I'll try to make a drawing, but ideas come along as I work on the setup. I make connection with loose wires under the hood, and then adapt it to the spare harness when I am satisfied with the layout. I remove the wire connections carefully from the big connectors in the harness, and mark every removed wire with essential info for later use. I'll rewrap the whole harness when I feel that I have the routing of most wires under control. In the meantime, I have a lot of loose papers with color codes for the new adaption of the wires in the harness, finally coupling it all together will be an exciting moment!

I also have a 3-wire 105 Amp GM 12si alternator to replace the original that has a defect diode. It will have it's wires drawn separately to the fuse block, without being integrated into the harness. I also remove most of the original ignition wiring in the harness, in favour of a separate circuit for the simple relay triggered HEI ignition setup I already have. (see the electrical FAQ)

But, unlike you, I have the advantage of being able to drive while working on the extra harness! :mrgreen:

Olaf
We're on very similar tracks.
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Got a good headstart on the wiring this weekend but I have a question.

Dan in the link about fuseabl links the say to replace a 12 guage Hypalon wire with two 80 amp Maxi fuses in parallel for a total of 160 amp protection for the alternator feed. I understand that the paper ws written for more modern cars than the 77 Aspen i swapped in, but this seems excessive for the 65 amp alt the 77 came with. The fuseable link the car came with was 12 guage. I'm a bit stumped for the sizing of this Maxi fuse.

More questions to follow
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Dan in the link about fuseabl links the say to replace a 12 guage Hypalon wire with two 80 amp Maxi fuses in parallel for a total of 160 amp protection for the alternator feed. I understand that the paper ws written for more modern cars than the 77 Aspen i swapped in, but this seems excessive for the 65 amp alt the 77 came with.
The circuit protection isn't made with respect to the maximum output capacity of the alternator. You're not trying to protect the alternator from anything here. Remember the alternator B+ terminal is electrically common with the battery+, so a short to ground could mean hundreds of amps flowing from the battery. The main purpose of the circuit protection in this line is to kill the line in the event of a dead short.

If you are bypassing the ammeter completely and running directly from alternator B+ to battery (+), you would want to set up the circuit protection differently -- advise if this is what you're doing.
Author:  65 dartman [ Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Interesting thread. Since I intend to upgrade all the wiring in my 65 Dart wagon, I'll follow along.
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Dan in the link about fuseabl links the say to replace a 12 guage Hypalon wire with two 80 amp Maxi fuses in parallel for a total of 160 amp protection for the alternator feed. I understand that the paper ws written for more modern cars than the 77 Aspen i swapped in, but this seems excessive for the 65 amp alt the 77 came with.
The circuit protection isn't made with respect to the maximum output capacity of the alternator. You're not trying to protect the alternator from anything here. Remember the alternator B+ terminal is electrically common with the battery+, so a short to ground could mean hundreds of amps flowing from the battery. The main purpose of the circuit protection in this line is to kill the line in the event of a dead short.

If you are bypassing the ammeter completely and running directly from alternator B+ to battery (+), you would want to set up the circuit protection differently -- advise if this is what you're doing.
See, this is why I started this thread. I had never thought of it in that way Dan. Thanks.


I have mounted a voltmeter in the dash. Do I need a shunt with that? Also, would I necessarily need 2 80 amp fuses in parellel if I can find a 160 amp slo blow fuses?

Thanks to everyone.

BTW, I mounted the voltmeter and a tach in the trim plate on the left of the 64 Dart dash where the pushbutton shifter would be, looks great.

I am also going to install a hazard switch since I'm doing so many upgrades already. Slow progress but I'm pluggin along.
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I have mounted a voltmeter in the dash. Do I need a shunt with that?
No.
Quote:
Also, would I necessarily need 2 80 amp fuses in parellel if I can find a 160 amp slo blow fuses?
Two side-by-side parallel 80A fuses are functionally equivalent to one 160A fuse.

But what exactly does your line from the alternator B+ to the battery (+) look like? What is its routing, where does it go (and stop on the way)?
Author:  bbbbbb9 [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Dan, this car was rescued from the crusher so it's a blank slate. I believe the 77 Aspen wiring had on wire going to a bank of fuseable links and another to the voltage reg, but I'll need to check the wiring diagram.

Any suggestions? I want to try and reuse the original design from the 77 as much as possible
Author:  mcnoople [ Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Dan what is your opinion on using a single 150 circuit breaker instead of a pair of fuses? Something along the lines of this

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46989/HI ... T-150-AMP/

They make them in water resistant and panel mount varieties for boat applications. Blue seas carries similar ones and it makes me wonder if cooper makes them for blue sea. I personally like the idea of a manual reset breaker due to the ability to restore power without having to replace fuses.
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