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| Dodge Dart Manual Steering Upgrades https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49715 |
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| Author: | rgmcmanus [ Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dodge Dart Manual Steering Upgrades |
I Have a 1963 Dodge Dart Station Wagon with manual steering. What upgrades are available nowadays? |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Do you want to stay with manual steering? Do you want faster ratio, or same effort, or? Budget? Thanks, Lou |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yeah...what would you like to change about it? |
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| Author: | rgmcmanus [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Dodge Dart Manual Steering Upgrades |
I wouldn't want to increase the effort to steer it too much. Are there more precise steering options available? Or are there better steering boxes available that would fit without having to modify other things? I've read about Flaming River offering Rack & Pinion steering for Ford Falcons for $2K (why not Dodge Darts?). Reilly MotorSports has the AlterKtion which includes Coil-Over Shocks with Rack & Pinion steering for $4K (these things aren't cheap). Is just going to Dodge Dart Power Steering a good enough upgrade? |
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| Author: | Reed [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:41 am ] |
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Again, what do you want to change about your steering? The stock A body steering and front suspension is actually a very well designed system. You don't want increased steering effort, but what DO you want? More "road feel"? Faster turning (fewer rotations of the steering wheel to turn the front wheels)? What are the problems you are trying to resolve? Or are you wanting to "upgrade" just for the sake of doing something to your steering? Personally, I would leave it alone. If your steering is sloppy and needs attention, by all means rebuild it. However, I don't recommend drastically changing the system just because you can. If you need a new steering gearbox, try Redhead Gears in Seattle or Firm Feel. |
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| Author: | Doc [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The first thing to do is inspect the steering system & components to be sure all is in good condition and in proper adjustment. A worn idler arm, pitman arm or tie rod end can add a lot of loose "feel" into the system. A mis-adjusted or worn steering box or coupler can have the same result. As others have noted, the 62 and up A-Body steering & suspension system is well engineered and "hard to beat" but it needs to be in "good working order". As for up-grades, look into suspension upgrades, like anti sway bars, better shocks and stiffer springs. Those changes make a big difference in steering responsiveness and vehicle handling. DD |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
IMHO, the stock 24:1 manual steering in these cars is VERY precise IF all parts are in good condition. Upgrading from bias ply or high aspect radial 13" tires to 15" or bigger with a short-ish sidewall will make it more precise and safe, and that is the first upgrade I would consider. Lou |
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| Author: | rgmcmanus [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Dodge Dart Manual Steering Upgrades |
Hey, thanks for all the replies! So if it's the steering box that's worn, would going to a 16:1 ratio noticably increase the steering effort? What's the ratio for the power steering box? |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Don't look now, but I think we might sort of be wafting and drifting almost kinda sorta closer to learning what it is you actually want to know/do. If you would finish chewing on it and just spit it on out and let the sun shine on it, we could take a look and see if it looks like "My '63 Dart's steering has too much free play/slop in it", "My '63 Dart steers OK but requires too many turns of the steering wheel for my preference", "My '63 Dart's steering seems to be binding; it feels 'chunky' when I turn the steering wheel", "My '63 Dart seems to wander all over the road", "My '63 Dart creaks when I turn the steering wheel", "My '63 Dart's steering is fine, but I see ads for various products and wonder if I should be considering them", or something else. C'mon, man, we're trying to help you here, but you've got to help us help you! Throw us a bone! To answer your pending half-questions: Power steering ratio is 16:1. A stock power steering box gives you "one finger" steering; the steering wheel feels as though it is not connected to the road wheels. Upgraded power steering boxes return some road feel to the steering wheel. Expensive swap that adds weight and underhood complication. Nonpower 16:1 boxes are fine for racing in a circle or oval. They are a big and constant damnuisance around town and when parking, and can very efficiently drain all the joy out of driving the car. Also there is no good reason to spend the money and add the weight for the Flaming River iron-housing box. The aluminum-housing Chrysler box is quite excellent if it is in good repair and adjustment, and it weighs and costs less. The stock nonpower steering box has a 24:1 ratio. Relatively easy to turn the steering wheel, but a lot of turns lock-to-lock. IMO the best nonpower steering box ratio is 20:1. Excellent balance of steering effort (totally acceptable even while parking) and sensible lock-to-lock turns count (4½). I have a 20:1 box on my '62 Lancer, replacing its original 24:1 box, and it is ideal—I would not change it. Complete steering and suspension system must be in excellent condition and alignment, and tires and wheels must be thoughtfully selected. |
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| Author: | rgmcmanus [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dodge Dart Manual Steering Upgrades |
Not having a new Steering Box to compare to, I don't know if wear is contributing to my looking around. "My '63 Dart steers OK but requires too many turns of the steering wheel for my preference", is one of my complaints. I like having power steering in my other cars, but I don't want to lose the feel of the road in the Dart. The Dart is my daily driver and I enjoy driving it. "My '63 Dart's steering is fine, but I see ads for various products and wonder if I should be considering them", is also a motive. Being from 1963, I wonder if something beter has come along since then. Has it? "IMO the best nonpower steering box ratio is 20:1." This sounds like the best of both worlds. I would get a new steering box to tighten things up and less turns lock to lock. Where can I get one? Are they aluminum also? |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I believe that firmfeel.com (very reliable place) will sell you a new 20:1 steering box (OEM alum type), or Flaming River has a 19:1 box (iron, but only 4-5 lbs heavier). Each of them are in the $450 range. Lou |
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| Author: | SlantSixDan [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Get 20:1 box from FirmFeel.com or SteerAndGear.com . I (still) see no reason to go with Flaming River's stuff. |
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| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Fyi... |
Quote: Get 20:1 box from FirmFeel.com or SteerAndGear.com .
I know Firm Feel ran out of 20:1 and 16:1 chucks a few years back, and only offered to rebuild those ratio boxes if you sent one in. You will have to call to confirm availability. The "new" box they have on their website has the same code as the stock 24:1 box.On a light car like a Pre-73, the 20:1 feels good...I haven't tryed the 16:1 box (outside of losing the power steering belt, like that counts)...24:1 is passable if 'new' and all the front end components are new and tight...and is good if you have a heavy or late car, and is a bit easier to run the wheels if you can't give the car a bump to roll it enough to get the wheels to turn in a tight spot. -D.Idiot |
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| Author: | ESP47 [ Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Dude just tell us whatever the heck it is that you don't like about your steering box. You have multiple people trying to help you and you just keep throwing out little bits and pieces of information. Type out a paragraph explaining exactly whats going on with your car and why you are concerned about it. |
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| Author: | rgmcmanus [ Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Dodge Dart Manual Steering Upgrades |
Hi, When I go back to driving the 1963 Dodge Dart after driving cars with power steering, it feels kludgy because of the number of turns required to do the same manuever. I would like power steering, but I don't want the kind that loses the feel of the road (is that what the stock version does?). It would be good to have some feedback. Does someone makes a power steering box with feedback for Mopars? When I read about the Flaming River Rack and Pinion Steering upgrade with power steering, I thought that would be great, but unfortunately they don't make a kit for Mopars. So, I was wondering what the Slantsix.org membership was doing to their cars in general. It sounds like going to 20:1 might be a good compromise, if it isn't noticably more difficult to steer. Red-Head Steering Gears, Inc. has a gearbox for $256 with exchange. I'm waiting to see what other things people have done before I change anything. |
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