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Another starter option to fit with DDDs or Hyper-Pak
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50295		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  SlantSixDan [ Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Another starter option to fit with DDDs or Hyper-Pak
The Hyper-Pak setup does not fit with an unmodified '60-'61 direct-drive starter, or with a Chrysler or Nippondenso gear-reduction starter. I've been digging, and I think there is another likely starter option—so far unexplored—that looks like it might clear everything including the Hyper Pak rear exhaust manifold and maybe even the Dual Dutra Duals.

The candidate starter looks like this:

Image

It is a coaxial (planetary) gear reduction design, not offset like the Chrysler and Nippondenso gear reduction starter designs. That's why the motor housing is directly in line with the starter drive axis, thus making the whole starter more "laterally compact". It looks like it should hug the block of a slant-6, with only the solenoid protruding. It is from a 2005-2008 Dodge Ram pickup with 5.7-litre V8 engine and manual transmission (automatic is totally different, stands no chance of fitting our cars).

Per all the book specs and dimensions it looks like it should fit and work on slant-6 applications originally equipped with a gear-reduction starter (all US '62-up except trucks with HD transmission and a few '70-'71 cars; all Canadian '67-up except a few HD, etc.) if only the upper mount hole has the threads drilled/reamed out. I've been meaning to fetch one, mount it, try it out, and take some measurements, but my to-do list is just impossibly long and I probably won't get around to it in the foreseeable future. So, please, someone else go try this—there are two questions here (does this starter fit and work on a '62-up slant-6, and does this starter clear the exotic manifolds). Knowing the answer to just one of these questions would be a good start (heh), so if you have easy access to such a starter, please try it out even if you haven't got a Hyper-Pak or DDDs.
Author:  kesteb [ Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't have access to a starter, but I do have the DDD's. So if somebody would like to lend a starter I would be happy to try it out.
Author:  Valleyant [ Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Another starter option to fit with DDDs or Hyper-Pak?
Quote:
The Hyper-Pak setup does not fit with an unmodified '60-'61 direct-drive starter, or with a Chrysler or Nippondenso gear-reduction starter. I've been digging, and I think there is another likely starter option—so far unexplored—that looks like it might clear everything including the Hyper Pak rear exhaust manifold and maybe even the Dual Dutra Duals.

The candidate starter looks like this:

Image

It is a coaxial (planetary) gear reduction design, not offset like the Chrysler and Nippondenso gear reduction starter designs. That's why the motor housing is directly in line with the starter drive axis, thus making the whole starter more "laterally compact". It looks like it should hug the block of a slant-6, with only the solenoid protruding. It is from a 2005-2008 Dodge Ram pickup with 5.7-litre V8 engine and manual transmission (automatic is totally different, stands no chance of fitting our cars).

Per all the book specs and dimensions it looks like it should fit and work on slant-6 applications originally equipped with a gear-reduction starter (all US '62-up except trucks with HD transmission and a few '70-'71 cars; all Canadian '62s and '67-up except a few HD, etc.) if only the upper mount hole has the threads drilled/reamed out. I've been meaning to fetch one, mount it, try it out, and take some measurements, but my to-do list is just impossibly long and I probably won't get around to it in the foreseeable future. So, please, someone else go try this—there are two questions here (does this starter fit and work on a '62-up slant-6, and does this starter clear the exotic manifolds). Knowing the answer to just one of these questions would be a good start (heh), so if you have easy access to such a starter, please try it out even if you haven't got a Hyper-Pak or DDDs.
Dan thanks for the lead on this one. I will give it a try but will take a little time to actually see how the pieces fit.
Author:  Mike_64_Valiant [ Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
About 8 months ago I helped a friend put a hemi from a ram into a roadrunner. He already had a built 727 and wanted to use it, for some reason I don't recall the hemi truck starter didn't get used. After reading Dans info I just got to his shop last week to ask if he still had it. Nope his neighbors start went out on her truck and him being a good guys just swaped out hers for his at no charge. Then tossed the bad one in the scrap. Always a day late I guess. Or in his case 3 weeks. Oh well keep on the search.
Author:  mcnoople [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:00 am ]
Post subject: 
I worked at a dodge dealer from 2003-2010 and I don't recall ever seeing any hemi rams with a manual trans. They have to be uncommon. I would like to know how Dan even finds out stuff like this. I think he has access to some kind of alien technology that tells him all the obscure knowledge that the rest of us don't know.
Author:  Dart270 [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dan has spoken to me by telepathy, but wouldn't tell me his secret of the alien knowledgebase. This starter does sound cool...

Lou
Author:  Reed [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I get the feeling we will never know. I believe Dan has left the building follow the minor blow-up last week. I can't say I really blame him.
Author:  hyper_pak [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Starter
I am goin to try and find one. I will need one as I dropped a 170 off at the machine shop today. Only thing on my stuff was my rear mainfold was cut and welded years ago, I was told to clear a steering column on a 32 Studebaker.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Two things...
I think the two things I'd be concerned with when looking at this starter:

1) Does it have the 'nose' like the classic starters do (somewhere in the early 2000's they stopped using them), this would allows the starter nose to be somewhat correctly placed in the starter pocket on the bellhousing.

2) Will the starter housing need to be die ground to fit? The pattern visually looks like it would fit a 727 bell no problem, and possibly the low mount on the AREngineering Adaptor plates....being that the angle on the A904 bell is a little different I'd be curious if this may need to be massaged to fit properly...

Just thinking out loud.

-D.Idiot
Author:  Pierre [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
It does have the nose per parts store website pix.

Random thought - the Robbmc starer is also planetary style (motor in line with gear) and solenoid can be rotated to infinite positions. I posted a pic of the one I used some time back... let me try to find it.

Edit: Here we go.
Author:  Dart270 [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Pierre,

MAN, that is a cool starter setup (Robbmc). I don't know how I missed that one, or I forgot... :? Nice option for many tight clearance apps.

Lou
Author:  Valleyant [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Yup, nice having options!
Author:  Pierre [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:27 am ]
Post subject: 
The guy is pretty cool to deal with too.

Keep in mind this was years back. The one I bought off moparts eventually failed. The planetary gears were held down by screws that worked themselves loose. I talked to the guy - well past its warranty, he took care of it. Turned out there was like a "version 1" and "version 2" or somesuch and I had the earlier one. Now the screws are staked in and use loctite.

Since then I never reinstalled it, just left the modern mopar starter in there and kept going. Come to think of it I should swap it back in. If you thought the nippondenso starter wound up fast....
Author:  FastFreddie [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
My car came with the direct-drive Autolite/Prestolite starter. I needed a reduction drive starter to clear my headers. I had a local shop modify the starter for a Dodge Dakota, but there was not a lot of metal left by the time they finished machining it to fit. I talked to Robb at RobbMC about making a starter specifically to suit the early cars. It took some time but I just installed it a couple of weeks ago and it works like a charm! The only downside is the price but it is a quality piece.
Author:  Valleyant [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Welcome FastFreddie!
Your car sounds really cool!
Is the starter the same one that Pierre talked about earlier in this thread but with different gear (early style) to engage the flywheel? The reason I ask is I have a 1960 Valiant that I'm working on and am looking at all the options possible for it. Most likely I will go with the original prestolite and I will be using the Hyper Pak exhaust manifolds.
When you get a chance can you post some pics of the wagon?
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