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| Help me decide - rebuild myself or pay a shop? https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50636 |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help me decide - rebuild myself or pay a shop? |
Pretty simple. '63 dart 225 slant needs a rebuild. 170K+ on the engine: I'm getting rod knock. Still runs well enough to move it to and fro, but I wouldn't drive it anywhere with the knock this thing has. It's been sitting for nearly a year: it's time to do the rebuild now, so this Dart can become my daily driver. I have never rebuilt an engine before: this would be instance numero UNO. I have the space, some of the tools, but not all the knowledge (yes, I have the three books for SS owners, but I haven't read them all yet). I could tear the engine apart easily enough while it's in the engine bay, but once I get down to the engine mounts and cherry picking the engine from the car: that's where I get concerned I don't know what I'm doing. I do not own a cherry picker: I'd rent one. I do not own an engine stand: I'd buy one. Were I to rebuild the engine, once I get the engine out of the car and bolted to the engine stand, how much further do I tear the engine down myself? What parts do I send off to which shops? Does one machine shop do it all, or am I the grand coordinator: sending the head off to one shop, with the block, pistons, crankshaft, etc. to another? What's typical of a good machine shop: will they pick up/deliver a block back to you, or am I the responsible party for getting the block to/from the shop? What do I need to know about who/what is a good machine shop? I have many questions and I'm confident in my abilities, but will not begin a rebuild myself without knowing what to do. I think tearing the engine apart would be relatively easy and I could probably get it done in a couple of days (guessing), but once everything is apart, I don't know what comes first, second, third, etc. By that point, engine parts will be laid out all over my carport floor, and they must not stay there for an indefinite period of time, while I figure out what to do. It was suggested to me if I don't do it myself, I should go to one shop and have them do everything, to avoid farming out the work individually. But the mechanic who offered that opinion also was of the opinion that the quality of rebuilds and shops of repute (San Fernando Valley) were all over the map, and he couldn't recommend a good rebuilder. I wouldn't mind an opinion or two from you all. How easy/difficult would this be on my own, and how long do people estimate I would spend doing it msyelf, vs. having a shop do it, if I could find one? At this point, because I need to get this done soon, I'm thinking a shop rebuild might be the way to go, since I don't have a ton of time to spend doing this. But if quality rebuilds are going to be hard to come by, I'd definitely do it myself. Thoughts? |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:56 pm ] |
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IF you've never done one before and you don't have the tools, especially for measuring wear, you are better off leaving it to a competent shop. Yes, it will be a lot of money, but trying to tear one down and make it right w/o the proper tools is a crapshoot at best. The flip side is that doing one on your own will teach you the right and wrong way to do things, and that is how the majority of us learned. 
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
There are probably a couple of people on this board that are close enough to stop by and lend a hand. If you're detail oriented, and don't mind putting some time in you can get it done. If you wait till the Harbor Freight engine hoist in on sale plus the 20 percent off its almost as cheap as renting one twice. I've pulled motors without one too. |
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| Author: | Brussell [ Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:15 pm ] |
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I think you could at least pull it apart, take a lot of photos and label everything. Don't just drop everything into a bucket and hope you'll remember. I think laying everything out over cardboard or something you can write on to label it all isn't a bad idea. You might find that by this stage you need to have professional work re-done. If you can get someone to help you, two heads and four hands can be better! |
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| Author: | Doctor Dodge [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:06 am ] |
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it may-be best to get a replacement engine ready to go, then swap it into the car yourself... instead of pulling, rebuilding and re-installing the one you currently have, in the car. Get some quotes for "production" replacement engine. you can purchase a rebuilt "long block", from a local rebuilder, then do some "special up-grades" to it, before installation. That approach take less tools and skill... and it would speed-up the process. DD |
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| Author: | ValiantBoyWonder [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:42 am ] |
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I work at the firestone on truman and maclay. Stop by sometime and we can talk. I know of a couple resources in the area. My names alex. Look for the white/black/red valiant. |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Thanks |
Thanks all for the suggestions. I always wanted to rebuild it myself to save $$$, plus I want the experience. DD, I hear what you're saying about swapping out a ready-to-go engine in the car, but I'm picky: I want the original engine that came in the car. Of course, I could just buy an 'interim' engine, while I rebuild the original myself at my leisure so the wagon is functioning - that may be the way to go. But S6 engines I've seen on the c-list recently around here haven't gone cheap at all (at least $600+), and that was in questionable condition. Alex, are you going to be working later this week? If so, PM me a day/time, and I will stop by to talk. You're close to me, and your thoughts would be welcomed. Biggest priority is to get the engine rebuild done well. Second priority is to get it done quick. Trying to be as logical as I can about taking care of both priorities. |
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| Author: | Tim Keith [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:04 pm ] |
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You might find a free 225 to get you by for awhile if you hang around some of the V8 forums. Determine if the motor in the Dart is original. If not, why not swap a different one? I built a 225 in a '65 when I was 16, didn't know very much. Still don't know much compared to most of the people on this forum. I've been looking at Cummins 4BT diesels, don't know much about them but lack of knowledge probably won't stop me. For me the major internal parts have never been the problem, its warped exhaust manifolds and so forth that usually frustrate me the most. Sometimes the professionals make mistakes too. If you're picky and read the posting here, I bet you begin to spend more than you planned! |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:51 pm ] |
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Found a '69 225 for sale for $300. Is there anything about the engine I'd have to change in order to drop it into the 63 wagon? |
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| Author: | Fopar [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:06 pm ] |
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The 69 should have a larger hole in the converter end, you will need to get a special ring to get the hole down to the early converter diamention. No big problem Doc I think has a few. Richard |
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| Author: | slantzilla [ Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:40 pm ] |
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You'll also need the damper and timing cover off the old motor (timing marks are in a different place) along with the motor mounts, oil pan and pickup. |
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| Author: | Doctor Dodge [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:38 am ] |
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I kinda like the 68 and up timing mark position... it's on the same side as the distributor so I can watch the mark and adjust the distributor position, at the same time. I do have some adapter rings if you need one. DD |
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| Author: | enrique lopez [ Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:13 am ] |
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Its a lot of fun rebuilding the engine yourself. As to saving money,, it wont be much. But you will learn a lot!! I rebuild one, but I had my godson help me, (mechanic) we had soooo much fun!! We installed a working engine in the car first, that allowed us to take our time with the rebuild. |
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| Author: | Groovin65 [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:17 pm ] |
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I recently just completed my first build. Didnt have alot of the tools but had saved $ to get what I needed. Rented alot of them at autozone. She runs. Not to terrible but still needs tinkering. But as much of a pain as its been as well as more $ than the shop quoted.....  its been a great learning experience. Its a simple motor. Just go slow and when frustrated, walk away for a bitAnyone close by the Reno area that could help a brother out with some tinkering? she's my dd but gas mileage is terrible. |
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| Author: | Eatkinson [ Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:26 am ] |
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Thanks all, and to ValiantBoyWonder for chatting in person and giving some local resources. Decided since I'm not dependent on the wagon for my DD yet, won't be going to the trouble of picking up a working /6 - will just do a rebuild on the existing engine myself because I want the experience, and hopefully, I'll save a little $ in the process. Going to start yanking it apart here shortly and then I'm sure I'll be back with plenty of questions. BTW - what's the engine weight on the 225? |
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