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170 Slanty only fires with old cap and rotor.. Wait.. What??
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Author:  jollyrajr [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  170 Slanty only fires with old cap and rotor.. Wait.. What??
Hey all.. I just couldn't pass up this Frankenstein 73 Dart a friend was selling.. She's a 68 valiant meets 73 Dodge Dart meets 64 Cadillac fins.. Definitely a unique car..

Pictures (before and after body damage by local hoodlums which preceded the sale of the car to me..) here-- http://www.flickr.com/photos/57785272@N ... 353884166/

Anyway, she's running an early slant (2121474-1 is the number stamped on it.. A friend checked with Slant Six Dan and he says '60 170.. Early motor, that's for sure!) and the 1bbl needs attention.. Figured I'd do it right and do new plugs, plug wires, rotor and cap first..

Old plugs were champions (yech..).. Replaced with the Slant Six dot Org preferred NGKs.. New Bluestreak/Standard CH-410 (CH-410X is now obsolete, but the CH-410 looked nice) and the Bluestreak/Standard rotor CH-303 (cross-references to the SS.org preferred Echlin MO-3000).. Wires were partsmaster 7mm cheapies, but they seem like fine enough wires compared to the crusty stuff..

Engine hates to cold start and requires Spray Start (I KNOW, I KNOW.. evil.. rebuild kit for the 1bbl Carter to be picked up tomorrow..) but runs.. 1bbl bogs a ton and it can't get out of its own way going anywhere.. I know the 170 is a bit of a lightweight, but.. dang.. Must be off time, running odd, etc.. So, swap the cap and rotor, wire new plug wires exactly like the old cap..

No satisfaction.. Cranks and cranks.. It's getting spark for sure (coil is discharging nicely when we yanked the coil wire and got close to metal..) but not catching.. Swap on the old crappy cap and rotor and blammo.. Fires right up with the Spray Start (dangerous as hell, I know, but I had to flip it around in the parking spot before my association gets angry..) ..

So, here's my question-- what the heck might I have done wrong? I'm pretty positive the wires were routed correctly.. Pretty positive they were pushed all the way in and seated..

Anyway, once I get paid the next thing that's going on is an HEI ignition so I can get rid of the ballast resistor and tidy things up under the hood.. Going the TrailBeast (from FABO) method because I don't feel like junkyard hopping another HEI setup.. I gathered all the parts for my '67 Valiant V-100 but its currently 100 miles away in exploded view - suspension.. :)

But, trying to figure out why she won't start without Spray Start..I have no idea where the timing marks are on this engine.. I have to admit that the car came to me as a running basketcase, so I can't assume the engine/carb/trans/etc match in any way..

Thanks gang..

Raj

PS: Worth it to source out a 2bbl manifold and 2bbl for a stock 170? The good news is the engine appears to have been rebuilt sometime in its past.. And, I have a line on a free running 225 with moderate mileage in case the 170 really is that much of an anchor.. But, I find that hard to believe given the pedigree.. Then again, it's in a 73 Dart, not a 63.. :)
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Timing Chain..
I would suspect it's not the components you chose but probably the timing chain may be suspect. Is the distributor EI or is it a single wire points?

For timing chain check...

Remove cap from the distributor...leave rotor in place...

While looking at the distributor (or have a friend watch), using the fan belt if engine not equipped with a crank bolt...put some tension on the fan belt with one hand and use other to roll the belt clockwise until the rotor moves...repeat in reverse fashion noting how long it takes for the rotor to move after the belt and crank/damper moves...it will either be spot on or as suspected some delay and thus a loose timing chain causing the issue (off 3-? degrees every so often). This gets worse if EI as the reluctor point is not as 'sloppy' as points and needs to have the cam and crank in time or it just doesn;'t run right ( if off a little) or not at all (could be 5-7 degrees or more...)

Good luck,

-D.Idiot


Looking at the pics it's a 1968 Valiant Front with the cadillac and Dart components....I think I'd dress like Lurch and show the car off just for fun...

"You rang...."
Author:  63Valiant [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow, that's one of a kind for sure!

The 170 is okay, it's a little peppy when running right. Sounds like either your choke and/or accelerator plunger isn't working.

I'm sure more info is to follow. Congrats on the buy!
Author:  jollyrajr [ Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Timing Chain..
Thanks guys.. It's an electronic ignition..

I'll have to see if it has a crank bolt or not and then do the chain check.. I'm realllllly hoping it's got rebuilt internals-- the spark plug tubes were done up nicely, and everything else on it seems buttoned up pretty well.. Well, except the carb which seems to be thrown in there.. A local guy in the 67-69 barracuda owners group has a known good Holley 1920 I can throw on there while I rebuild the Carter..

The choke appears to be missing (I can see a spot on the exhaust manifolds where a bolt would hold a bi-metal spring type choke in place), the manual choke pull in the car isn't hooked up to anything, and I think it gets boggy when I rock the carb linkage because the accelerator plunger is rather hurkey-jerky.. Herky-jerky? Ack.. How does one spell that..

Anyway, I'm going to throw some more time at it tomorrow or Sunday.. So far you guys have given me some things to look at.. More info forthcoming :)

Raj



Quote:
I would suspect it's not the components you chose but probably the timing chain may be suspect. Is the distributor EI or is it a single wire points?

For timing chain check...

Remove cap from the distributor...leave rotor in place...

While looking at the distributor (or have a friend watch), using the fan belt if engine not equipped with a crank bolt...put some tension on the fan belt with one hand and use other to roll the belt clockwise until the rotor moves...repeat in reverse fashion noting how long it takes for the rotor to move after the belt and crank/damper moves...it will either be spot on or as suspected some delay and thus a loose timing chain causing the issue (off 3-? degrees every so often). This gets worse if EI as the reluctor point is not as 'sloppy' as points and needs to have the cam and crank in time or it just doesn;'t run right ( if off a little) or not at all (could be 5-7 degrees or more...)

Good luck,

-D.Idiot


Looking at the pics it's a 1968 Valiant Front with the cadillac and Dart components....I think I'd dress like Lurch and show the car off just for fun...

"You rang...."
Author:  wjajr [ Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Love’en it, a Slantillac, the low priced caddy!

Reminiscent of 1955 and 1956 Plymouth tail ends. A ‘59 Caddy fin would have been a show stopper.

Now if you could somehow integrate a duel headlight Caddy looking front grill with eyebrow extensions over the headlights say everything above chrome horizontal bar of grill, and hood ornament the canvas would be complete. LOL


I would guess that there are several problems causing hard starting, and drivability problems.

First suspect is the carburetor’s lack of working choke, and its need for a rebuild.

Second probably the valve lash is way off.

Third base timing needs to be checked. First step would be to find #1 TDC and see where timing marks line up on harmonic balancer and correct as necessary. Timing could be out 180 degrees, plug wires could be one hole off in cap, and you need to be sure the basics are nailed down. Then checking with a timing light while cranking it over static timing can be set to say 5 to 10 degrees advanced. It should start even if timing chain is slack when base timing is properly set.
Author:  Reed [ Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Sweet! That actually looks really good. And those rear stabilizers will help a bit with handling, I'm sure. Mr. Exner would be proud.
Author:  powerwagonpaul [ Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:13 am ]
Post subject: 
looks like a hardtop batmobile!!!
Author:  pishta [ Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
results of Raj's Slantillac motor: The 170 wasnt the issue, it was the 2.3 or something crazy low rear gear he had on that boat. Well, that and the fact that 1 shooter was completely plugged with garbage. We got him a somewhat fresh 225 and carb and we hope it helped a little, but that rear would have been more at home behind a Cummins.
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