Slant Six Forum
https://slantsix.org/forum/

Carter BBS Choke
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50735		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  R. Wood [ Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Carter BBS Choke
Will the choke for a Carter BBS will fit correctly into the exhaust manifold of a '75 Valiant? I'm referring to the original spring-coil choke that was intended for the BBS. I'm considering getting one. (Cold starting problem here).

My car's original carb was a Holley 1945 that used the divorced electric-assist choke. This choke does link to the Carter; it just doesn't do anything.

I have a carbs-only electric choke (a 1231) that will bolt to the manifold but then the linkage to the carb is in the wrong place. I fabricated a small plate to 'move it over' so that it would connect to the carb but it's still not at the right angle. The path of travel (the slot in the 1231's bracket that the rod goes through) is vertical where, to me at least, it looks like it should be horizontal)

So I am trying to make this square peg fit, which might be the root of the problem. I am also considering going back to the 1945, maybe a professional restoration. Not sure if the 1231 would work with it or not.

Any advice?
Author:  R. Wood [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Minor update and a more accurate description of what is going on.

The old choke from the 1945 at least enabled the car to start. It does hold the choke valve closed. When the engine is cold it wants to immediately stall out for the first several cranks and starts. Apparently something warms up enough for it to keep running and continue warming up. But if I try to drive it like this, or give it any gas, it will stall out. Once it has warmed up for around three minutes, it drives fine, no bog, no problem.

I did snap a couple pictures of the plate I made to offset-mount the 1231 electric choke. If need be I can show it with the electric choke mounted on it. It mounts on the two studs that you see here:


Image

Image
Author:  64ragtop [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
What is that dual spring assembly? Please pardon my ignorance, but it's a mighty strange looking gadget, and I don't understand its function.

If I understand properly, the aluminum plate is to let you mount the electric choke in line with the carb's choke connector. Seems like that ought to work.

Does the exhaust manifold have the pocket that the Carter divorced choke fits into? If so, that system works but parts are kinda scarce.

The electric choke ought to work as well, or better. SSDan wrote quite a bit about it, with numbers and replies to questions. Look up his threads on the subject.

ATB

BC
Author:  R. Wood [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the reply.
Quote:
What is that dual spring assembly?
That's the stock throttle return for a '75
Quote:
If I understand properly, the aluminum plate is to let you mount the electric choke in line with the carb's choke connector. Seems like that ought to work.
Correct, and that's what I thought, too, until I actually installed it.
Quote:
Does the exhaust manifold have the pocket that the Carter divorced choke fits into? If so, that system works but parts are kinda scarce.
It does have the pocket (the plate is covering it) but it was built for the Holley choke which, near as I can tell, is similar to the Carter but has an electrical assist. It only has one threaded hole. The scarcity of those Carter chokes - and the high price - is really why I started this thread, because I hoped to avoid buying it and finding immediatley that it doesn't work on the later exhaust manifold.
Quote:
The electric choke ought to work as well, or better. SSDan wrote quite a bit about it, with numbers and replies to questions. Look up his threads on the subject.
Well, that's why I bought it. I have read the threads here, and even posted about it several years ago when I first got the electric choke.

I need to put the choke back in place and take a few pics so you can see what I mean about the range of motion. The slot is vertical, so the rod travels up and down. It does not have much ability to open or close the choke flap, which wants the rod to push or pull along a horizontal plane.

I'm wondering if the carbs-only choke intended to fit a Holley 1945 would work on this since the factory Holley (divorced) choke fits perfectly on the Carter BBS.

Do you know if the Carbsonly 1232 fits on a Holley 1945?
Author:  64ragtop [ Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I've displayed my ignorance once again. That dual spring assembly looks like the throttle return springs on my Thermoquad. It looks nothing like the return spring on my Carter BBS.
The best thing about ignorance is knowledge destroys it. Thanks.

The Carbs Only site http://www.carbsonly.com/frames/carsandtrks.htm has a short video comparing their # 1231 and 1232 chokes. The differences I see are the directions the mounting flanges are bent, the lengths if the operating rods, the relation of the mounting flange to the electronics housing and the 1232 has a tang that I think fits into an unthreaded hole in your manifold. How would things line up if the mounting flange was turned toward the electrical unit, rather than away like the 1231?

The pages for the 1231 & 32 both use the same crappy video and the same description, changing only the model number. They do show the mounting flanges to be pointing differently.

I see what you mean about the vertical movement of the choke end of the operating rod not seeming to provide the horizontal movement one would think the choke linkage on the carb would need.
The best semi-wild a$$ed guess I can make about that is this: The arc of movement of the choke end of the rod and the arc of movement of the hole the operating rod connects to on the carb somehow combine to produce the correct motion.

It's a geometry thing.

I think you need a 1232.

ATB

BC
Author:  R. Wood [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
I got a response from CarbsOnly:

"Sorry, we don't see any electric choke conversion for the Holley model 1945"

I had hoped that since my Carter BBS was a perfect fit with the original Holley choke, that a new electric choke for the Holley would also fit it. Looks like no go.

Most of the 1232 threads I've read here are for its use with the 2BBL Carter BBD.

It makes me wonder which carb a 1231 electric choke is used for. Holley 1920?
Author:  Chnaane [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Last year I put the electric choke conversion kit number 1234, from CrabsOnly, on my 76 Dart with Holley 1945. It fitted and hooked up fine with no modifications.
Author:  64ragtop [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't see a listing for a #1234 conversion choke on the carbsonly site, only 1231, 1232, & 1445. They show the 1231 & 1232 for both 1 barrel and 2 barrel carbs, but the listings are not brand specific.

I thought my post about the video on the carbsonly site and the rest of that post made a pretty strong case for a 1232 for your Holley. What did you think of the video? When you wrote about the plate to move the 1231 choke over, you said the manifold only had one threaded hole. Isn't there an unthreaded hole near the threaded one?

It seems to me like the 1232 choke would bolt to the one threaded hole that you have and the tang on the foot would stick into the unthreaded hole. The opposite orientation of the 1232 from the 1231 might then accomplish what your plate does. It's late, past my bedtime...

ATB

BC
Author:  R. Wood [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Good responses - thanks.

Chnaane - that helps explain CarbsOnly's response, since it looks like they no longer offer the 1234. This is good info and maybe I can find a 1234 elsewhere or a used one.

BC - yes, the 1232 looks like it would mount perfectly on the later manifold, with the one threaded hole and the hole for the tang. My problem with this one is that I don't think the rod will link up to my carb. Two reasons: one is that it appears that the end of the rod is oriented 90° from what the 1231's end is. What the BBS needs is 180° from the 1231.

Second reason is that the 1232 does fit the BBD carb - one with a different choke orientation than the BBS - leads to believe that it would not work with a BBS.

I will look for a 1234 electric choke, but what I've done in the mean time is order a (non-electric) divorced choke for a BBS. I will report back here on whether it fits into the choke pocket on my car's manifold. This will, at least, answer my original question!

Here's what I ordered:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/CHOKE-THERMOSTAT ... ~60_12.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/CHOKE-THERMOSTAT ... ~60_58.JPG
Author:  64ragtop [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
My hat would be off to you, but I never wear hats. You and I are both sorta like Pit Bulls with a bone in our teeth - not gonna lt iet go 'til something big hits us upside the head!
When I didn't see the #1234 choke on the website, it never occurred to me that they might have dropped it from their line. Post again with your future developments.

ATB

BC
Author:  Chnaane [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Y'all guess too much and give up too easy. I asked Carbs Only and they said they're sold out of stock on 1234 kits but they will have more in about 8 weeks.
Author:  64ragtop [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I GUESS that's good news. I spent some hours doing the research to provide the answers that resulted. I did not call Carbs Only, maybe I should have. Since the 1234 choke was not on their website, listed like the rest of their chokes, it seemed likely to be a waste of my time and theirs. Me, I'm moving on to a cable operated carb with its own electric choke. :D

ATB

BC
Author:  R. Wood [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:01 am ]
Post subject: 
I got a holt of the BBS choke, here it is bolted to the '75 manifold. It aligns as it should, I believe. At first I thought the rod was too long but now I wonder if that is intentional, to give me the ability to put a bend in it to make it fit my application. What do you think?

Image

Image

I am not sure this does anything that the original Holley choke didn't do, since they are both bi-metallic springs. The Holley had the voltage assist going to it, and again I do not know what the voltage was doing to assist it. As you can tell I still have a lot to learn about chokes. That's partly why I am doing this exercise. Cold starting being the other, of course.

Image

Image

I emailed Carlos at CarbsOnly and got a similar response. I figure 8 weeks translates to 6 months and if it is back in stock then I'll consider it. Meanwhile it is colder than a titches wit and I am looking for better perfomance now.

No one said anything about giving up. Hey BC, what carb are you running and what electric choke? is this for your '64?

Thanks,

RWood
Author:  64ragtop [ Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for checking back in, I really hate it when a thread is obviously nearing either the end or a "fork in the road" and it just STOPS!!

Glad you found that the BBS choke would (almost) fit. That same choke rod on the BBS that came on my car was too short, and would not allow the choke plate to close fully. It had a "Z" bend in it. I straightened it out, then had to put a bend back into it because straight it was forcing the choke plate hard into the wall of the carb. My reading tells me that the choke plate should contact the wall lightly, and that's what mine does now. My best guess is that there is enough "slop" in the making of these chokes and/or manifolds or carbs or somewhere else to make bending the rod for the proper closing of the choke plate needed. I haven't found that in any publications, and my reasoning could be faulty, but it seems to be working for me now. There's also an adjustment in the choke to loosen or tighten the spring tension, but one source I found said DON'T fool with it. I did anyway :shock:

You might want to run a tap into that unthreaded hole in the manifold to anchor the carb side of your choke. I would, just to avoid it moving after I had it adjusted. I've never understood the use of the "electric assisted" choke like your original one. Maybe Holley's choke just needed the assist & Carter's didn't (again, just guesswork - and I would be happy to learn the true reason). I'm with ya on wanting the darn choke to work at least "pretty well" when it's cold out there. (not to put words into your mouth, figuratively)

My /6 car is having suspension and braking modifications. I had to go to the big bolt pattern to find wheels to work with the disk brake conversion. Since I didn't want to carry two spare tires, changing the rear axle was needed. I've put an 8.75 Sure Grip in place. Overkill beats the heck out of NO kill!

For the carb upgrade, I have an Offenhauser 4-barrel manifold and Holley 390 CFM carb, thus the cable carb linkage. Well, if it's gonna breathe better on the intake side the exhaust needs to as well IMHO. I have a set of Dutra "dual duals" and will be opening up the rest of the exhaust with two 2" pipes. I think that's gonna be all for now for the /6 car, the AZDart. There are several minor upgrades I want to do the the 64ragtop. And my wallet could use a break, too!

ATB

BC
Author:  blainethemono [ Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Carter BBS Choke
Bump


Newbie here, saying HI!! Resurrection.....since Im dealing with this old problem right now. Looks like I need a 1231, with a 7" actuator rod.

Oh yeah..... My Dart, just bought her 2 weeks ago

Image
Image
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC-08:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/