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Penn College of Technology 'Dyno Dart' K&N filter testin
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Author:  dude0936 [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Penn College of Technology 'Dyno Dart' K&N filter testin
Today, I tested a few things for the up coming class on Monday. A baseline of three runs was established, then three runs with the K&N filter in the factory air cleaner housing, and then three more runs at the baseline again to prove the improvements were truely found.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmXULb0LRRs

The K&N filter provided a little over 2lb-ft of torque and 1hp over the entire power curve (idle-4250RPM). The MAX torque was 134.020lb-ft and 84.221hp.

I know some do not care for the K&N filter and I am not endorsing it just testing the performance difference on the chassis dyno.

The video is of the 3rd K&N filter test.

Chris
Author:  Reed [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Penn College of Technology 'Dyno Dart' K&N filter te
Quote:
The K&N filter provided a little over 2lb-ft of torque and 1hp over the entire power curve (idle-4250RPM). The MAX torque was 134.020lb-ft and 84.221hp.

I know some do not care for the K&N filter and I am not endorsing it just testing the performance difference on the chassis dyno.
Interesting and thanks for doing this. For me, on a street driven car the price of a K&N filter is not worth 1 HP and 2 ft/lbs of torque. Maybe on a 1/4 mile drag car, but not a daily driver.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Lol...
Quote:
The K&N filter provided a little over 2lb-ft of torque and 1hp over the entire power curve (idle-4250RPM). The MAX torque was 134.020lb-ft and 84.221hp.

I know some do not care for the K&N filter and I am not endorsing it just testing the performance difference on the chassis dyno.
Actually 10-15 years back David Vizard had noted on dyno pulls with the brand X V-8 that there were noticable gains from using it, and for 4 barrel guys using the K&N stub stack for smoothing the transition of air from the filter into the carb throat better. That being said the gain will depend on the modifications and the efficiency...depending on how a daily driver is envisioned that could be small if low compression small cam...or could be bigger if going higher compression wih more cam and better VE.

-D.Idiot
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:02 am ]
Post subject: 
How did either compare to no filter at all? I am under the impression that the gains seen with the K&N filter are due to less restriction, due to less filtering ability. Less filtering ability=more engine wear.
Also how about when the filters have an equal amount of dirt contamination.
Author:  dude0936 [ Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  K&N Filter test
I agree with D.Idiot, the test of the PCT Dart was on a stock engine with a low CFM movement based upon the small, low velocity head ports, stock cam, and low CR. I believe the CFM requirements will increase as we make more changes to the engine and the K&N may show more difference. Charrlie_S, the students and I will do this same test again along with running just the base place of the air cleaner housing and no air cleaner baseplate as well. The filters used in the test I documented above where both brand new so testing dirty/used filters could not be determined.

I plan upon doing ignition testing loops, valve lash adjustments, one bbl (Holley 1920) testing with stock & K&N filter tests, testing of an aftermarket 2.25" exhaust compared to the stock '67 exhaust. In addition we will setup the super six manifold, carb, air filter housing, and kickdown linkage; we will perform all the tests again on the 2bbl setup. Then we plan upon using the 4bbl setup performing all the tests yet again. In addition to that we are testing the orange box, chrome box, rev-a-nator ignition box, removing the engine fan and adding an electric fan and eventually moving to an electric water pump drive. We plan to do these tests over the next 15 weeks testing to see what parts work or do not work as effectively as expected based upon the stock engine.

We are also going to test the components for driveability as well not just WOT performance. We have a five gas setup so we can drive the Dart on the dyno to simulate fuel consumption and emission performance.

It should be a good time and very informative. We also have a Honda Civic (OBDII) that we are performing similar tests. Hopefully, PCT will be able to add a late model Charger (5.7L or 6.1L) to add to the testing in the fall.

Chris
Author:  Charrlie_S [ Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Keep posting, Chris. This could be a very informative test situation.
A suggestion. Time and parts availability permitting, how about a E-85/E-10 comparison, on some vehicle. Maybe a student owned "flex" fueled. That would make it easier.
Author:  slantzilla [ Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:48 am ]
Post subject: 
I always figured that if a motor needed X CFM of air and your filter flowed X or more, putting on a bigger filter basically did not do much.

I have used K&N CAI kits on newer stuff and figured that the bulk of any gains were from correction the issues with a factory air box, which are a compromise between flow and noise control.

Charlie, I believe a K&N picks up flow based on more surface area, not reduced filtering ability. I ran a K&N on my red truck for over 150,000 miles and saw no increased engine wear. I cleaned it religiously every 20 to 30K miles. When I sold it with 200K on it it still used very little oil, and ran better than my '06 4.7 HO any day of the week. :shock:
Author:  dude0936 [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Continued testing of the PCT Dyno Dart
So additional testing occurred on Wednesday of this week on the Dyno Dart with the students and the numbers are in from the Penn College Mustang Chassis Dyno.

Test 1 the baseline with the factory air filter and timing set at 13 degrees BTDC and 28 degrees BTDC had the following results.

Max Torque : 132.558lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 83.177hp
Avg Torque : 122.779lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 76.279hp

Test 2 the baseline with the change of the air filter to the K&N filter that I have tested on my own. The students numbers for the filter where slightly less than mine but the students are learning how to use the dyno. The dyno plots looked like the engine was lean at the end of the run and the torque (average) fall off kind of indicated this.

Max Torque : 134.171lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 83.767hp
Avg Torque : 122.590lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 79.365hp

Improvement over test baseline
Max Torque: 1.583lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 0.590hp
Avg Torque: (-0.189)lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 3.086hp

Test 3 was the baseline with the removal of the K&N filter but the baseplate remained in place. Same torque (average) fall off as before so jetting will be necessary.

Max Torque : 132.827lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 84.484hp
Avg Torque : 122.213lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 79.088hp

Improvement over baseline
Max Torque: 0.269b-ft
Max Horsepower: 1.307hp
Avg Torque: (-0.566)lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 2.809hp

Test 4 just the baseplate with no filter and a movement of the jet from a 60 to a 64. The numbers really picked up with the jet change.

Max Torque : 140.336lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 88.226hp
Avg Torque : 131.109lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 85.030hp

Improvement over baseline
Max Torque: 7.778lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 5.049hp
Avg Torque: 8.330lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 8.751hp

Test 5 was with no air filter just a baseplate, a 64 jet, and a bump of the timing to 15 base and 30 total. The numbers dropped off a touch.

Max Torque : 138.595b-ft
Max Horsepower: 87.572hp
Avg Torque : 126.925lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 83.805hp

Improvement over baseline
Max Torque: 6.037lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 4.395hp
Avg Torque: 4.146lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 7.526hp

The 6th test was a test with no baseplate, 64 jet, and 15/30 timing. I thought the air turbulence in the engine bay would have impacted the numbers more but they look decent.

Max Torque : 140.431lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 88.487hp
Avg Torque : 130.913lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 84.893hp

Improvement over baseline
Max Torque: 7.873lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 5.310hp
Avg Torque: 8.134lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 8.614hp

Test 7 was the use of the factory air filter, 64 jet, and 15/30 timing. The filter dropped the numbers as expected.

Max Torque : 136.580lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 86.790hp
Avg Torque : 128.042lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 82.666hp

I had the students put everything back to the settings of the first test and the numbers were equal to the test 1 results so the testing seems valid. 21 runs in a three hour lab. Interesting information. So far the 1st test at the beginning of the semester to the current testing (timing, fuel, air filter changes) has resulted in the following increases.

Improvement over baseline
Max Torque: 16.748lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 10.551hp
Avg Torque: 12.713lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 11.244hp

Next testing is exhausted related. Stay tuned.......
Author:  Joshie225 [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the data. It's interesting to see the effects of the different changes and confirm seat of the pants data about stock jetting being lean and too much timing hurting power.

I would like to see what happens if you cut the stock exhaust pipe near the torsion bar cross member. My expectation is that you pick up power, but need a slightly bigger jet. The real trick is to build an exhaust system which makes the same power, but is quiet. I don't like my cars too quiet though so it's easier for me. :)

The car still has points correct? Electronic ignition should be a worth a couple HP.

Thanks for your contributions!
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Ditto...
Definately thanks for the numbers, and the time on the dyno, really does put things into perspective.

I actually would like to see they #4 test with a #62 jet instead to see if #64 was overly rich.

I would also like to see Josh's exhaust pipe test since this a a dragstrip /6 mod that stockers get when they show up in the pits for the first time racing... :lol:

-D.Idiot
Author:  dude0936 [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joshua, the next testing with the Dart will be the removal of the factory exhaust and move to the 2.25" from Accurate Exhaust; header pipe to the tailpipe with a 'magnum' muffler. We will look at the open exhaust at some point before we move to the 2bbl and then the 4bbl setup. The ignition is already an electronic unit, I went to that during the rebuild of the mechanicals of the Dart. We are using the orange box currently but will also test the chrome box and if the college can find some cash we will look at the rev-n-ator ignition box.

DusterIdiot, the reason we tested the 64 jet is because the Holley kit the college has included jets only down to 64. We will order a 61, 62, & 63 to do more testing.

Open exhaust will come along soon but this week we will share the focus with the college's dyno Honda.

Stay tuned........

Chris
Author:  Joshie225 [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nice work. I would suggest an HEI module and e-core coil for testing too. You can get the stuff for less than $20 at a wreckers.

So you are going to cut the factory pipe before fitting the 2 1/4" system?
Author:  1974duster kev [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is pretty cool :shock:

Kev
Author:  dude0936 [ Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, sorry about the delay, PCT has had a few snow days so my schedule got backed up and then the class had to focus on the Honda for a class but I have some results. Today, we ran the Dart baseline with 15 initial timing and 30 total (orange box electronic), the 1bbl carb with a 64 jet, factory air filter housing and filter. We added a Holley blue pump to assist the mechanical so the fuel pressure remains constant for the entire run. With the weather correction the results of test 3a runs 1-3:

Max Torque : 134.139lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 82.940hp
Avg Torque : 122.927lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 79.339hp

After the three baseline runs the factory exhaust was cut to the transmission crossmember and run (3b, open exhaust). The results were very good.

Max Torque : 142.580lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 89.673hp
Avg Torque : 133.157lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 85.621hp

Improvement over test 3a baseline
Max Torque: 8.441lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 6.733hp
Avg Torque: 10.230lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 6.282hp

This was just open exhaust, we did not do any jetting yet and the exhaust looks a little to short for the RPM (idle - 4300rpm) we are running so we might play with extensions to the pipe length. The same tests as before still have to be done, the K&N filter, no filter element, no air filter housing just the baseplate and we will see how much more we can extract from the slant with the 1bbl.

Here is the video of the 3rd run on test 3b: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJwK_uC6z1s

Here is a facebook group for the Dyno Class if you are interested in following there as well (I hope it works): http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/471981446195889/

More to come,

Chris
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