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Lining up the Distributor with the Timing Gears
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Author:  nagosnell [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Lining up the Distributor with the Timing Gears
I’m pretty sure the answer is in the forum somewhere but the search results didn’t get me there. After I line up the two marks on the camshaft and crankshaft gears, how do I know the correct position of the distributor (when looking down at the rotor button, if that’s the way to do it)?
Author:  Reed [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:58 am ]
Post subject: 
(1) Do not trust the cam and crank gears to properly align the camshaft and crankshaft. FOr years now people have been reporting that the dots on the gears have put their cams many degrees out of where they should be in relation to the crankshaft. The only way to be 100% sure that your camshaft and crankshaft are properly aligned is to degree the cam with a degree wheel. Instructions on how to degree a cam have been posted many times. Do a search.

(2) There is no method of installing a distributor that will guarantee the rotor is in the right position. It always involves a bit of trial and error. To get the rotor fairly close to where you want it (within 10 degrees, usually), make sure the #1 piston is at TDC on the compression stroke and insert and rotate the distributor so that the rotor is pointed roughly below the #1 spark plug tower. Theoretically, the location of the #1 spark tower is completely arbitrary, but most shop manuals and most people put the #1 tower at roughly the 4:30 o'clock position looking down on the distributor, roughly above the front distributor cap clip. No matter hat you do you will need to use a timing light and some adjusting with the motor running to get the distributor timed perfectly.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Lol...
Quote:
There is no method of installing a distributor that will guarantee the rotor is in the right position.
After degreeing in the cam while the engine is apart, you have already determined the position of TDC...you can reset the #1 piston to TDC and with a pair of lifters and pushrods you can determine if the cam is in overlap is one the base circle at that point (no lift on both lobes). At that point you can adjust your home made piston stop to keep the piston at TDC, you can then install the timing cover and damper and check to make sure the mark is still on, remove the stop and reset the mark to the BTDC number you are looking for for base timing and you are closer than you think...after that you need to use the timing light to dial the initial in to the correct amount after you have the engine broken in.


-D.idiot
Author:  nagosnell [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info. Just to make sure, is it still necessary to degree the cam as opposed to relying on lining up the marks if all of the original parts are being reinstalled? I just did a basic overhaul so the original cam, crankshaft and gears are being used. If so, I'm still looking for some good references on how to do this. I've tried doing a search for doing this on this forum but it's usually involves a non-stock hi-po slant so it isn't basic enough for someone who had never did this. If you have good links, it would be greatly appreciated.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Yes...
Quote:
Just to make sure, is it still necessary to degree the cam as opposed to relying on lining up the marks if all of the original parts are being reinstalled?
Yes, it's the only way to make sure. I replaced the sloppy timing set on my 'beater valiant' with a new dyna gear set several years back,..the marks were 180 out (cam arrow 180 away from the crank gear)...also you can pick up a little more torque also by advancing the cam a degree or three...

-D.Idiot
Author:  Sprag [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
A while back a buddy and I were degreeing a cam (Olds) and decided to check several timing sets he had on hand, some where new, some used. Only one set was spot-on (new Cloyes) and the worst set in the bunch was a slightly used name-brand timing set that was 13 degrees out of whack!! Now I never trust the dots.
Author:  slantsik [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Degreeing a cam
Here ya go.
Degreeing a cam
Dont trust the dots.!

You can print a wheel off the net.

Did you return all lifters to their correct bores!?

There may be a notch on top of the distributor body to indicate #1.

Are you havin fun?

Brendan.
Author:  nagosnell [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks again everyone! Slantsik, that's the link I've been looking for. I'll give it a try and hopefully everything will work out.
Author:  nagosnell [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:04 am ]
Post subject: 
I didn't answer a question. The lifters are not going back to their original bores. I wasn't paying attention to the order in which I was disassembling the engine. I turned the engine on its side to do something else and the lifters slid out. Is that bad?
Author:  Joshie225 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:24 am ]
Post subject: 
The lifters wear-in to the cam lobes. You must return them to their original positions or face the prospect of destroying the cam. Since you don't know where the lifters belong you either need to buy new ones or have yours reground.
Author:  slantsik [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The lifters are not going back to their original bores. I wasn't paying attention to the order in which I was disassembling the engine. I turned the engine on its side to do something else and the lifters slid out. Is that bad?
Ooooooooooops.
put that one down to experience.
Seriously as Joshua said, install new or re-ground lifters.
otherwise you will likely be pulling the engine apart in a couple thousand miles to change the cam and lifters anyway!!!
check out this.

lifters
and this
camshaft break in
Use moly grease on the cam lobes ,and follow the instructions in the article above.

Bye
Brendan.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  x2
Quote:
Use moly grease on the cam lobes ,and follow the instructions in the article above.
x2 here, I also use it when assembling an engine (locally available Isky Rev Lube is good stuff)...The clear engine assembly stuff that the other local shops have stocked has a tendency to 'run out' of the bearings/off the lobes if the engine is being assembly over the course of a few weekends.

-D.Idiot
Author:  slantsik [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Nagosnell,whats ur name man?
Do u remember posting this question?
Quote:
but are there any details that are often overlooked that cause issues later?
to which I replied
Quote:
If re-using old lifters and cam make sure they all go back into the original bores.
Amongst other things.
Well it looks like you already had the engine apart at that stage.so the lifters were already mixed up. bummer.
I should have suggested a new cam at that stage ,sorry I didn`t,we live and learn.
mixing new lifters with an old cam seems to be acceptable ,but not best practice.
The best thing to do now would be new cam and lifters,(and break in correctly)
second best would be new lifters on old cam
third best and not advisable at all would be dropping old lifters into the bores in random order
the worst thing to do would be to put the old lifters onto a new cam (ouch)
Just think how good it is to find out all this now while the engine is out,rather than in 500 miles time and having to pull the engine out again to fix it!!!
:shock: :roll: :cry:
Brendan
PS use correct cam lobe lube and use oil with ZDDP or add ZDDP at cam break in ,and all oil changes afterwards.
Author:  nagosnell [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, the scattering of lifters wasn't intentional. I had planned to pull each one out individually with a magnet and mark them like I did with the other parts. But that ended when I turned the engine on its side. Anyway, I'll deal with that next.

For right now, I found TDC with a dial indicator and set my degree wheel to zero. I then put a lifter into the 1st intake bore, put a 3/8 extension on top of that and set the dial indicator into the top of the extension with the male end of the extension in the valley of the lifter. I made sure that everything was secure and that there was no slop or play in the set-up.

Past this, I'm still a little lost. One post mention finding the degree at .050 lift of the camshaft. I got 9-10 degrees. After this, I continued rotating the crank until I got to the maximum lift of .225 at 51 degrees. Did I find any useful numbers and what do they mean?
Author:  nagosnell [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
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