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Open exhaust testing on Penn College Dyno Dart
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Author:  dude0936 [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Open exhaust testing on Penn College Dyno Dart
I posted about some open exhaust testing that the students did on 2/6/13 with the Dart. Today, I ran the Dart though some tests, 1st I established the baseline of the open exhaust (cut at the transmission crossmember); my numbers were very similar to what we got on 2/6/13. After testing the factory air filter I moved to the K&N filter with positive results, and finally I just ran the base plate without any air filter housing. Here are the results:

Stock Air Filter
Max Torque : 142.135lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 88.689hp
Avg Torque : 132.961lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 85.506hp

K&N Air Filter
Max Torque : 143.680lb-ft (+) over stock: 1.545lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 90.564hp (+) over stock: 1.875hp
Avg Torque : 134.890lb-ft (+) over stock: 1.929lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 86.792hp (+) over stock: 1.286hp

Base Plate Only
Max Torque : 147.419b-ft (+) over stock: 5.284lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 94.608hp (+) over stock: 5.919hp
Avg Torque : 139.973lb-ft (+) over stock: 7.012lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 90.253hp (+) over stock: 4.747hp

On Monday the students will attempt these tests with the Dart and we may look at the jetting and the exhaust length at bit on Monday if time allows. Here is a video of the 3rd Base Plate test run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFWbmoVY9sA

The testing shall continue.

Chris
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Niiiice...
Looks nice...thanks for the run through.

I wish you were more local, I would lend you a Feather Duster header pipe (ends at the factory flange at the cross member where it would connect to the cat. convertor) to switch with the stock cut off pipe so
see what the gain would be at that point with the larger pipe.

Looking forward to the next installment!

-D.Idiot
Author:  dude0936 [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:17 am ]
Post subject: 
-D.Idiot, I actually have one of those pipes in my basement. It was on my '75 Swinger and you are correct it expands just before the catalytic converter and it is longer than the cut pipe on the PCT Dart. I will take it in to work on Monday and we can add that to the testing that will occur on Monday and Wednesday of this week. We will eventually get the Accurate Exhaust 2.25" exhaust on the Dart so we can quiet it down a bit. I installed the 2.25" Accurate Exhaust on my '75 but I added a high flow catalytic converter as well so I can pass visual inspection. Hopefully the weather will get nicer soon so I can test my Swinger on the dyno as well. With what I have learned about timing, jetting, air filtration, and exhaust I think I will have my Swinger running a little better and getting better MPG to boot.

I will post how the students' runs of the exhaust tests go from this upcoming week.

Chris
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Hmmm...
Quote:
It was on my '75 Swinger and you are correct it expands just before the catalytic converter and it is longer than the cut pipe on the PCT Dart.
That doesn't sound correct for the Feather Duster header...the real deal is fat from the exhaust flange to the crossmember, then has the bulge for mating to the cat convertor/muffler section part of the exhaust. Check the dimension of your header pipe to see.

Definately look forward to the results of the full length system with larger pipe.

:)

-D.Idiot
Author:  dude0936 [ Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  More testing
Yesterday, the PCT students repeated the baseline tests and several tests I have already done but we added a few new tests during our time.

This is test Test 3a Baseline 15/30 degrees timing, factory air filter, jet 64, and Electric Pump in series with mechanical pump.

Max Torque : 134.139lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 82.940hp
Avg Torque : 122.927lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 79.339hp

Test 3b 15/30 degrees timing, factory air filter, jet 64, Electric Pump with mechanical pump, and OPEN EXHAUST

Max Torque : 142.580lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 89.673hp
Avg Torque : 133.157lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 85.621hp

Improvement over test 3a baseline
Max Torque: 8.441lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 6.733hp
Avg Torque: 10.230lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 6.282hp

Test 3c 15/30 degrees timing, K&N air filter, jet 64, Electric Pump and Open Exhaust

Max Torque : 143.995lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 90.684hp
Avg Torque : 135.169lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 86.859hp

Improvement over test 3a baseline
Max Torque: 9.856lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 7.744hp
Avg Torque: 12.242lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 7.520hp

Test 3d 15/30 degrees timing base plate only, jet 64, Electric Pump and Open Exhaust

Max Torque : 148.735lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 96.211hp
Avg Torque : 141.017lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 90.844hp

Improvement over test 3a baseline
Max Torque: 14.596lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 13.271hp
Avg Torque: 18.090lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 11.505hp

NEW TEST
Test 3e 17/32 degrees timing, base plate only, jet 64, Electric Pump and Open Exhaust

Max Torque : 149.340lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 96.304hp
Avg Torque : 142.481lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 91.740hp

Improvement over test 3a baseline
Max Torque: 15.201lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 13.364hp
Avg Torque: 19.721lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 12.401hp

NEW TEST
Test 3f 18/33 degrees timing, base plate only, jet 64, Electric Pump and Open Exhaust

Max Torque : 149.998lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 96.205hp
Avg Torque : 142.648lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 91.829hp

Improvement over test 3a baseline
Max Torque: 15.859lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 13.265hp
Avg Torque: 19.554lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 12.490hp

These are some decent numbers of increase based upon opening the exhaust, changing the air filtration, and timing. Tomorrow we will change the length of the exhaust pipe and then return to the 3a baseline test.

Here are all the results of all tests so far this semester:

Test Max Max AVG AVG
Torque Hp Torque Hp

1A 123.683 77.936 118.200 73.649
1B 129.998 81.578 122.092 77.826
1C 134.422 84.694 126.186 80.590
1D 136.214 86.083 126.355 80.883
1A 123.080 76.267 113.296 70.532
2A 132.558 83.117 122.779 76.279
2B 131.171 83.767 122.590 79.365
2C 132.827 84.484 122.213 79.088
2D 140.336 88.226 131.109 85.030
2E 138.595 87.572 126.925 83.805
2F 140.431 88.487 130.913 84.893
2AM 136.580 86.790 128.042 82.666
3A 134.139 82.940 122.927 79.339
3B 142.580 89.673 133.157 85.621
3Ba 141.357 89.424 133.357 85.509
3C 143.995 90.684 135.169 86.859
3D 148.735 96.221 141.017 90.844
3E 149.340 96.304 142.481 91.740
3F 149.998 96.205 142.648 91.829

Each of the testing series consisted of three runs and I listed the best of the three for the results listed. The runs had to be within 1% to be considered a "good" run. More testing to come.

Chris
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Chris,

What carburetor are using in the tests? Is it a basic Holley 1920?
Also, do plug the vacuum advance? or leave it hooked up?
You mention your running 15 degrees initial and locking the distributor out at 30 degrees? If so, what governor are you using a 9R? and a real heavy secondary spring? or did you weld the slots shorter?

What grade gas are you using during the tests?
During your initial tests what #jet was in the carb?

Take a look at the pics by clicking on the red link below my name. This year I decided to try the K&N air filter as a fun experiment.

Thanks,
Author:  dude0936 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ted,

The carburetor is a factory 1920 Holley.
The vacuum advance is connected for all the tests.
I welded the slots on the govenor and then I filed them to the length I needed. We have done some more tests that I will post soon where we ran 18 degrees initial and 33 total.

The gasoline is 87 octane E10 unleaded pump gasoline. It is what the college gets in bulk so I do not know the reed vapor pressure (if it is summer or winter grade)

The first test was with a 60 jet and then we moved to a 64 jet during tests 2 & 3. I have some new data with a 66 jet but it was not a benefit.

I really enjoyed your photos of your Dart. It looks very nice.

There are more results to come from the PCT Dart.

Thanks,
Chris
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Chris,

Awesome work!
I love it.....:)
What are the length of the slots?
Author:  dude0936 [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is an additional amount of tests based around the new 2 1/4" exhaust.

Test Max T Max Hp Avg T Avg Hp
4A 141.374 88.265 131.722 84.507 Stock with Base Timing of 15 and total of 30, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, and electric fuel pump
4B 144.304 92.040 135.733 87.105 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, and electric fuel pump
4C 145.125 91.347 135.310 86.962 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, MSD Blaster Coil, and electric fuel pump
4D 150.192 97.476 143.133 92.639 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, Base Plate only, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, MSD Blaster Coil, and electric fuel pump
4E 143.466 90.875 135.071 86.809 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, factory air filter & housing, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, MSD Blaster coil, plugs at .040, and electric fuel pump
4F 148.232 96.645 141.935 91.614 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, baseplate only, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, MSD Blaster coil, plugs at .040", and electric fuel pump
4G 149.384 96.465 142.415 91.987 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, baseplate only, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, MSD Blaster coil, plugs at .040", valve lash 12/22, and electric fuel pump
4H 144.684 90.399 135.964 86.954 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, factory air filter & housing, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, MSD Blaster coil, plugs at .035", valve lash 12/22, and electric fuel pump
4I 149.073 96.183 142.052 91.333 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, baseplate only, 2 1/4" exhaust, 64 jet, MSD Blaster coil, plugs at .035", valve lash 12/22, and electric fuel pump
4J 148.803 97.095 143.234 92.130 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, baseplate only, 2 1/4" exhaust, 66 jet, MSD Blaster coil, plugs at .035", valve lash 12/22, and electric fuel pump
4K 149.936 97.747 143.989 92.670 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, baseplate only, 2 1/4" exhaust, 66 jet, MSD Blaster coil, plugs at .035", valve lash 10/20, and electric fuel pump
4L 149.906 98.021 143.729 92.418 Stock with Base Timing of 18 and total of 33, baseplate only, 2 1/4" exhaust, 66 jet, MSD Blaster coil, plugs at .035", valve lash 10/20, No Power Steering Belt, and electric fuel pump

The Penn College Dart is broke 150lb-ft of torque (150.192lb-ft) on run 4D and the HP peaked (98.021hp) on run 4L. The avg torque best (143.989Lb-ft) was run 4K and avg hp best (92.670hp) was on 4K.

Playing with jetting did not produce effective performance changes and the MSD Blaster Coil did not show much in this testing but there was some improvement with timing (as seen in other tests) & the removal of the air filter element produced nice numbers increases (as seen in other tests as well).

Next testing will be the removal of the four blade fixed fan and replace it with an electric fan.

100hp peak cannot be too many tests away, it is very close.

That is all for now,

Chris
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  One other question.
Did you degree the camshaft to see where it is indexed at for the runs?

I'd bet there's a little more in there moving the intake event a little (too bad we don't have a removable timing chain cover like the V-8 crowd so you could swap bushings every run).

Runs look good, thanks again for the data!

-D.Idiot
Author:  dude0936 [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
I installed the 1971-1980 with a 244° / 244° / 26° / 0.414" cam installed at 106 degrees (used a degree wheel). We may look at the cam timing to see what we can do, I expect it would help the torque down low if we advanced the cam. We are going to perform cam timing on our Dyno Civic as that is a little easier to access and change.

I am excited about what the fan change will do and after the fan tests it is on to the Super Six 2bbl setup.

Chris
Author:  kesteb [ Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Interesting, the biggest increase seems to be removing the air cleaner and just using the air cleaners base plate. Everything else is just a refinement on that one act.
Author:  dude0936 [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Mechanical fan removal and adding an electric fan
Here are the results of the removal of the four blade fixed fan (factory) and the addition of a 16" electric fan. Adding the fan did not impact the cooling ability of the cooling system. Interesting information.

Max Torque Max HP Avg Torque Ave Hp
5A 141.396 90.934 134.078 85.948 Stock with baseline with 10/20 lash, 15/30 timing, 2 1/4" exhaust, electric fan, & 64 jet
5B 143.339 93.573 137.305 87.979 Stock with baseline with 10/20 lash, 18/33 timing, 2 1/4" exhaust, electric fan, & 64 jet
5C 151.397 99.199 145.246 93.714 tock with baseline with baseplate only, 10/20 lash, 18/33 timing, 2 1/4" exhaust, electric fan, & 64 jet
5D 151.397 99.037 144.460 93.714 Stock with baseline with baseplate only, MSD Blaster coil, 10/20 lash, 18/33 timing, 2 1/4" exhaust, electric fan, & 64 jet
5E 149.432 99.027 143.607 92.445 Stock with baseline with baseplate only, MSD Blaster coil, 10/20 lash, 19/34 timing, 2 1/4" exhaust, electric fan, & 64 jet

The 19 degrees initial advance and 34 total timing rattled a little so 18/33 seems to be the best for this current application. The electric fan did produce a bit of an increase in Torque and Hp, very nice setup.

Here is a link to a quarter mile run (rather than the usual power curve pulls). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt1XBeMJ94Y
The 1-2 shift is too quick (soon) but the run was a 16.51et at 79+mph, that is 1.3 seconds quicker than eight weeks ago; it is also 10 mph faster in that same time span.

The Super Six is the next setup.

Chris
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  How about...
I forgot, have you run it without the alternator yet?

Since you removed the fan out of the equation, I'd be interested to see if the old dragstrip trick of running without the fan belt (in this case waterpump yes, alternator no...) would provide some quantitative data before moving to 2 barrels.

-D.Idiot
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Chris,

1. Can you run a round or two with a little more lash to see if the torque will pick up?
Set at .012 and .022.

I ran a 16" electric fan for about 5 years then reduced the fan run time and amp draw dramatically by using two 10" fans mounted near the top of the radiator. They cool much better, especially with the air dam directing air up. The bottom of the radiator was always cold to luke warm on the 100+ degree days any way......so half the 16" fan was wasted on the bottom. Just not a very efficient set up compared to the two 10". You get more air on the intake with this setup to stop heat soak.

2. It would also be fun to see how much HP you pick up by switching to the GM HEI module. This would show us the impacts of running better ignition.

So two more sets of tests please?

Thanks,

To view pictures, click on the red link below my name.
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