| Slant Six Forum https://slantsix.org/forum/ |
|
| EI system won't fire while cranking https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51571 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | ntsqd [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | EI system won't fire while cranking |
Had a look first, apologies if I missed this posted elsewhere. Like the title says, Scooter ('65 Valiant, 170, OE electronic ignition conversion) will not fire while in cranking mode. It only starts after I release the key. Tried a jumper from the terminal of the relay on the firewall (with a wire going down to the starter solenoid) to the ignition side (as opposed the battery side) of the ballast resistor with no change. I'm befuddled, that should have made the difference. What am I missing? Surely this isn't normal? There is a wire from the module that is not connected to anything. Could this be like Ford Dura-Spark modules with a run more input and a crank mode input? |
|
| Author: | nuttyprof [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
When it was running the points ign there was a wire that fed the coil through the ballast resistor in run and a wire that bypassed it in start. It sounds like you are just hooked to the run circuit (ballast ) and not to the crank circuit so you only get power to the ign in run. find the ballast bypass wire and tie it in as well and see if that doesn't fix the problem. |
|
| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: What am I missing? Surely this isn't normal?
Your ignition switch may not be making consistent contact during the start mode. I have had the same thing happen on my car many times this last winter. As I returned the key to run mode it would start right up! I am not looking forward to tearing the column apart and changing the keyed ignition switch and the wiring. I may just wire in a new hot wire from the starting solenoid to a lighted ignition switch like used on race cars out to blue wire that goes to the ECU and coil.
|
|
| Author: | ntsqd [ Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The jumper that I had should have gone around all of these sorts of problems. It went from the output of the relay on the firewall (terminal that the wire to the starter solenoid originates at) to the terminal on the ballast resistor where the Ig. Module draws its power from. So if the starter solenoid had power, so should have the Ig. module. I was concerned that such a jumper might back-feed the solenoid and hang the starter when not in crank mode, so one end was just pushed into place making it easy to yank out if need be. Perhaps I should build a qwik sugar cube relay circuit to be the hard-wired "jumper" and try that? What does that currently unused wire from the Ig. Module do? I'm really tempted to just chuck all of this OE stuff and go to a Dura-Spark II system. |
|
| Author: | Aggressive Ted [ Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: What does that currently unused wire from the Ig. Module do?
Nothing.......Check this out... http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/elec/3.html Quote: I'm really tempted to just chuck all of this OE stuff and go to a Dura-Spark II system.
Why? when you have a good option with an HEI system? See Engine FAQ and SL6 Dan's HEI mod. |
|
| Author: | ntsqd [ Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've seen that diagram and similar. What I'd like to know is what did that terminal do? IME HEI's are not a bad option, but they are power hogs. I've used them on a couple projects and they really should have a dedicated 15A min circuit that is NOT thru the ignition switch. Usually this means adding a relay, not difficult in itself - adds another failure mode. IME they also tend to be intolerant of a low signal (trigger) voltage. That means that the exposed pick-up coil connections are a long term liability from a corrosion perspective. The electronic conversion that gave me the most trouble was an HEI triggered by the pick-up coil and reluctor out of an old Stinger E.I. conversion kit. The Stinger parts are nothing more than the MOPAR parts re-packaged and re-terminated with Molex connectors - as I found out and eventually eliminated they are most corrosion-prone connectors it's ever been my misfortune to deal with. Conversely I've put D-S II pick-ups and reluctors in too many different dist's to list (most numerous are Prestolites out of International-Harvester V8's), and have used the D-S II's module on almost as many vehicles. The connectors, while bulky and slightly klugey, are weather sealed. I've yet to need to add a circuit and I have run them off of an original ballast wire with no ill effects. I guess that it comes down to what you're comfortable and familiar with. For me that's the D-S II system. |
|
| Author: | ntsqd [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
So yesterday it did actually catch once while cranking. I thought that I'd over-killed the trunk mounted battery by running 1/0 cables for both power and ground, but perhaps this is a voltage drop issue somewhere. Module isn't getting enough voltage during cranking for reason(s) YTBD. I'll need to devise a test plan and see what I can come up with. |
|
| Author: | Pierre [ Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
It sounds like your just itchin to do this duraspark thing. If that's what you have your heart set on then do it and forget trying to troubleshoot what you have because you'll just get more frustrated. Relay as a failure mode? Really? Do you realize how many millions of modern cars use and depend on them for random things? Even something as critical as fuel pumps? I upgraded the dart I've had for approx one year now to HEI. I used an Accel module from kragen. Spade terminals on one end, probably 18awg if not 20 wire, and bullet on the other end to go directly into the stock connector. Been quite dependable. Maybe the accel module is less sensitive then the general replacement items, or maybe people put way too much emphasis on the whole "if you don't use a relay and give it full voltage the world will collapse" theory. |
|
| Author: | ntsqd [ Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I mostly want to drive it. Don't really care what the ignition is as long as it starts every time w/o excessive cranking like it does now. Failure mode as in another thing that CAN go wrong, not a judgement that it will. Estimations of FMEA (Failure Mode Effect Analysis) are, unfortunately, a nearly daily part of my job. The MTBF of the typical "Sugar Cube" relay of quality must be pretty high. I have seen them fail, but it's not been all that often. The reason for putting the HEI on a relay is that required heat sink they over-heat and fail without. That means that it turns a fair amount of current into heat, current that w/o a relay has to go thru the (in my case) 48 year old ignition switch design. It's just not in the best interest of the switch to run that kind of power thru it when it was designed for much less total current. It may well be that wired like that will work fine for years. I don't know that it will and I tend to err on the side of caution. I used to be ~900 yds downwind of the rust & corrosion blowing in off the Pacific Ocean. That has created a probably over-heightened awareness of corrosion possibilities. Corrosion issues used to be, and occasionally still are a problem even though I'm now ~7 miles from the coast. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC-08:00 |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited https://www.phpbb.com/ |
|