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| Oil pan baffles https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52830 |
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| Author: | robertob [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Oil pan baffles |
Finished my baffle last night - also did a little repair on the stripped drain plug (brazed in a new nut and hardened washer on the outside. If I still have oil pressure problems on hard left corners I'll get an accusump. <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34753005@N05/9361378814/" title="IMG_9107 by robertybowen, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5453/9361378814_1247d65e61_z.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="IMG_9107"></a> |
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| Author: | Reed [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would put a few more holes in the perimeter to aid in oil drain back. Otherwise, looks good! |
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| Author: | robertob [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
It's hard to see but the top (left side in the car) is wide open at the corners. The bottom (right side in car) has an opening where the pickup tube will go, and the whole thing is tapered so that the hole for the pickup is the lowest point. I'm hoping that will be sufficient, along with the small gaps at the front and rear corners on the driver's side. |
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| Author: | Reed [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Cool beans! Go for it! |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would also worry about drainback, esp from the rear. The engine tilts back in the car, so the rear baffle has to slope further downward to allow quicker drainback. From my experience, positioning the pickup is just as important as any baffles. I put mine (the triangular opening in the bottom of the pickup) as close to the middle of the pan as possible, and maybe a bit closer to the pass side. FWIW, I spent probably 4-8 hrs positioning my pickup and tweaking the bottom of it, and 3-6 hrs fitting the baffles after initially cutting them out from cardboard templates. Happy building! Lou |
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| Author: | robertob [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Lou - I put the pickup in the location specified in the FSM, I guess I'm not clear how tweaking it can make much difference? I was tempted at one point to fabricate my own pickup and put it in a sump with trap doors but figured it would be a lot of work for little gain. I do understand how it needs to be close to the bottom of the pan. I did un-crimp it to clean the crap out, so I can put the cutout anywhere I want. |
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| Author: | kesteb [ Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
When I built my windage tray/baffle several years ago, I started by filling the pan with 5 quarts of water to see what the potential oil level could be. If you did that to your pan, the baffle would be "under water" about 1/2". That shouldn't make much difference, when the engine is running about 2 or so quarts is circulating continuously. Which would leave your baffle at "water level". At that level the crank can froth the oil when it is turning. Some people claim that a windage tray is not needed for a street car. But I always thought that it can't hurt, so way not. My windage try/baffle runs from the front of the sump all the way back to the rear of the pan. It is free standing with about 1/8" gap from the sides. It sits just above "water level" and shields the oil from the crank. It is close enough to the crank, I had to dimple it for a rod bolt. It believe for #5 rod. Did it make a difference, who knows. There was no before/after comparison. If there was room under the car, I would build a pan that mimicked the Jag XKE oil pan. |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The hole where the oil is picked up is what absolutely has to stay submerged, so depending on cornering/braking/accel the slosh of the oil (angle of the big puddle) will determine where you want to put your pickup inlet. I spend time bending the pickup pipe around (on recent builds, toward the pass side and centered front-rear) and I flatten down the bottom of the pickup a bit to put the pipe nearer to the bottom of the pan. I make sure the bottom of the pickup is flat on the floor, and is actually pushing slightly on the bottom of the pan when I bolt the pan down. Maybe holding the pan up 1/16" all the way around when lined up. Kesteb, I also test with water and tilting the pan in different directions. FWIW, 5 qt static in the pan will be more like a 6 qt fill in the engine, since you have the filter and the amt held up inside while the engine is running. Lou |
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| Author: | robertob [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I did the water test - but I put in only 4 quarts for the reasons Lou mentioned. Actually my baffle is not submerged except for the right side a bit. Because of the slope of the pan, the oil level is approximately at the right edge of the oil pickup hole. This is an early A-body pan and the front and rear sections are very close to the crank. So close that I don't think you can fit a real windage tray in there - my baffle is more like a windage tray than a true baffle. I am concerned that the crank centerweight will hit my baffle - I don't have a block here with a crank in it so I had to guess at that part. If it does I can always adjust it with a hammer and/or torch. I think based on your feedback I will enlarge the drainback slots on the passenger side. I am using a Johnson crank scraper too, which will also provide some baffling on the right side of the pan so I don't need to be too worried about sealing off that side. The good thing about brazing is that I can remove it in minutes with a torch if I need to modify or reposition. When I install the pickup I'll double-check position -- I can just turn the pickup baffle toward the passenger side. The last time I ran the car with a totally stock oiling system I had problems on hard left turns and hard braking on. Never had trouble with right turns or accel (well, it didn't accelerate very hard!). |
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| Author: | Dart270 [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, left turns and braking are always worst cases. Lou |
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| Author: | Greg Ondayko [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | for what it's worth... |
here is a link to what i did on my pan project .. this is for a drag car.. not a road racer.. but I did do trap doors and a big baffle that is VERY swoopy for drain back. http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... c&start=45 there is the link read down that page and onto the next. good luck. Greg |
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| Author: | robertob [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks... I didn't want to modify the pan (I don't have the skills, or the room under there). I didn't come up with this out of thin air - I based my design on the discussions from the Mopax yahoo group. Those guys are mostly dealing with V8s, but the general consensus is that the baffle should be tightly sealed to the edges to be effective, with a slope toward the pickup for drainback. Now v8 pans have more flexibilty in mounting location - If you close of a v8 sump it's at about the 3 quart level. Mine is at about the 4 quart level, or more on the left side. I guess I could have made it flatter instead of curved but then It would have been harder to install. And I was hoping for the benefit of windage removal (might or might not work). |
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| Author: | kesteb [ Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I use a F-Body pan in my '65. This does require some modifications. The left front corner of the sump needs to be moved in about a 1/2" and you need to use the V8 cross link. The pan is deeper so that I can run a full length tray. Windage trays are a touchy issue. With many different beliefs and designs. The only way to tell if they are effective is with before and after testing. I still think the best setup for a inline engine is what Jag did with there 3.8/4.2 six banger. The next step up would be a dry sump. |
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