Slant Six Forum
https://slantsix.org/forum/

Need distributor/ignition help (yes, another one of those)
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52907		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  dc [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Need distributor/ignition help (yes, another one of those)
Alright, I've been reading thread after thread (including the HEI thread almost to entirety), but I still have questions.
Background:
1. I have a 1985 D100 manual truck that originally had lean burn.
2. Previous owner disabled the lean burn part of the system (the computer is still over under the fender, but I'd assume it doesn't work... but I don't know. The wires are nowhere to be found)
3. I think I still have the lean burn distributor, as it has no vacuum port I can see, and only has an electronic connector that isn't hooked to anything
4. Not sure if the carb is original lean burn or not (without a ported vacuum?), but I did pick up a Holley 1920 from a forum member (but haven't done anything with it yet, but now looking it looks like it might not have enough vacuum ports).
5. I have an MSD box sitting around that I haven't installed. I was planning to soon, and that is when I started looking at what I actually have under the hood.

Here are shots of my distributor and carb:
Image
Image

I'm trying to figure out the best option for my situation. I use my truck as a truck, and want to ensure I've got the right distributor and ignition choices.
1. Should I get a new electronic distributor to replace the lean burn? Since lean burn doesn't have vacuum advance, I'm guessing this is a resounding yes.
2. Is this the right one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Dodge-6-cyl ... b2&vxp=mtr
Or I read about a forum member who potentially sells them curved for your application. Or is that only for points distributors?
3. I'm guessing if I go that route, HEI would be the best option. Is it still worth using my MSD with an HEI conversion?

Bottom line, I've already got an MSD, but I can probably sell it if I need to. I'm not against points distributors, but they seem even harder to find than the electronic ones. I just want to use my truck as a truck... not a performance car. So that means loads of mulch, occasional towing, etc.

I had made the false assumption that the previous owner put in a different distributor and carb, since I didn't think the system would work without the lean burn computer. I'm guessing he just disabled the computer and "made it work" with the timing and carb. It is hard to start the truck, and it doesn't idle too well... I figured it was something with the ignition.

The truck runs surprisingly OK as is, which is why I thought it must have been retrofitted.

Ideas please? I'm open to the most cost effective option, but I'm not afraid to spend the money to get the best setup for my situation. I don't have emissions checks, and I already installed the required emissions equipment back when I got the truck. I don't mind a points distributor, I just don't have one. I used to maintain the points and contacts system on my old motorcycle, so I'm assuming it is the same deal?
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Feeble-bay...
Yes, it is a lean burn distributor giving only fixed timing at this point.

I love the fact that people have NOS stuff and mark it up and fail to tell you what it really is (or research it properly so they can get it sold quicker and get it to the correct person)....a 3874082 is a long slot 1975 distributor which might work ok in your truck, but is not the most desired distributor model out there.

I would be on the hunt for a 3874876 distributor and make sure the tag in the picture matches that number (any other number and you are getting a fugazi...), this distributor will allow you to run a little more initial to give the low compression engine a leg up on power and good mileage.

This one looks ugly, but has the correct tag...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/77-78-79-80-ASP ... 11&vxp=mtr

FYI,

-D.Idiot
Author:  dc [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:56 am ]
Post subject: 
So you think points is the better route to go for me? I wouldn't need to upgrade coils, I assume, or change anything else... unless putting in the msd would necessitate that (which I'm guessing it might).

Edit: or does anyone know how the electronic advance on the lean burn dist works? I assume the computer did all the thinking, and just gave the dist a voltage to match an advance.... if someone knew that voltage table, I could just make a circuit that would take an analog ported vacuum and output a digital voltage with the correct advance association, if i knew it. (I'm a little better with that sort of thing, because I did it in school)

Or was the leanburn just hooked to the coil??

Double edit: after soaking on this stuff a bit, I think my plan of action is going to be a new ei distributor, install the 1920 I have, and wire up the msd. I was unsure of if I needed anything aside from the msd if I bought the ei distributor.

Should I change out my stock coil right away? I already have spiral plug wires to install.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Uh no...
The distributor link I sent you is for a known good EI distributor with a short slot governor and a mechanical and vacuum advance. Points works but is a step back in reliability and fun pulling it to change points.

The ESC computer does all the thinking your distributor has no advance, at all, it's just a shaft that rotates the rotor to send the spark where it needs to go. In both the EI and the ESC the computer/module let's the coil know when it needs to fire.

-D.Idiot
Author:  dc [ Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info! I'll snag it after work.
Author:  Sam Powell [ Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Keep the MSD. You can wire it to work with the dist DI found for you. You will get much better mileage with that combinaion. If you do not, there are other electrical inefficiencies we can work you through.

Sam
Author:  dc [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:20 am ]
Post subject: 
That is the plan. I got an ebay distributor in (not the exact same one linked, but the same number on the tag). It was out of a 1980 b100 van. I still need to install it.

I had ordered an autoline reman dist at the same time from rockauto, just incase the one from ebay was junk. It sure looks pretty. Ill post some pictures. It was labelled as "heavy duty" vs light duty...(autoline tag D602) so I'm assuming that line is from trucks and vans... but I don't know where to look to compare the two I have. The original tag isn't on the remanned one.

The autoline reman feels like it has less play than the old one. Less vertical shaft movement, and spins a bit smoother.
Image

Image
Image

Also, the reman has an extra metal arm tab thing for a bolt connection towards the base. Does it matter if it has this or not?
Image

The ebay distributor has a much larger gap on the shaft, with the oring in it, than the reman. Any significance there?
Image
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Uggh..
The e-bay distributor looks good with a short slot governor and the correct vacuum pod (if it works), looks like it needs a clean up.

The reman distributor has come with an early bracket that you will have to swap with your old one to make it right if installing in your truck. That being said the reman is a crap shoot, we won't be able to tell you how much initial to set it for since we don't know what the governor is marked (unless you take it apart and can tell us the marks on the vac.. advance arm and the governor plate.

-D.Idiot
Author:  dc [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Cool. Thanks for the info. I figured that was going to be your answer.

Is this a good guide on disassembly so I can clean it up? Maybe I'll practice with the reman first and get the numbers off it.
http://www.allpar.com/fix/electrical/distributors.html


Or do you have a decent guide you could link to? This is my first rodeo with a distributor.

Thanks!
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Yep...
FSM is a little better than that article, but it may work OK. That's one of those"someday" projects on writing a cohesive article for our board on this procedure.

-D.Idiot
Author:  xjarhead [ Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
This may help also http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46266

Dave
Author:  Ssg Pohlman [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
So instead of a new post I'll use this one.

The numbers for the sought after dizzy looked familiar so I went to the garage and found the dizzy that was plugged into the engine I just swapped in. I kept the one I was running (reman ordered for what I can't remember maybe a 77 volare w super 6) So a quick pic and this is what I have. Even has a stamped 11R can. Though it looks to have a heavy spring as well?

ImageUploaded with ImageShack.com
ImageUploaded with ImageShack.com
So from other readings around here and many recommendations by DI, it seems I should swap to this dizzy. Does the extended tip rotor etc work as well?

This looks like a call for DI!!! (Casts DI light signal)
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Lol...
I was driving home...and there was this golden V shaped arrow in the sky...it looked like a Valiant forward look Arrow pointing to my computer....LOL...
Quote:
reman ordered for what I can't remember maybe a 77 volare w super 6
Doesn't matter what you order it for the part number is the same regardless of 1974 Dart or 1979 Volare...you get Cardone Russian Roulette in a box.

Picture #2 shows the guts, I would smack the pin out of the gear, pull the guts and clean all the old grease ("cosmoline") out of it, you will probably find the 9R/9L stamp on the governor...
Quote:
Does the extended tip rotor etc work as well?
After cleaning it up I tend to mic the shaft and the bushings to see how work they are...When I recurved distributors I would match a body and shaft up to make sure I had a loose .001-.002 tolerance to prevent too much "wobble", if you are in that goalpost then you can run whatever rotor you want...I'd be worried if it's .003-.005....(you can physically "wobble" the assembly in the body...). If it seems tight (i.e. you can't turn it by hand), I use some 4-500 grit emery cloth on the shaft at the contact points (if you are skilled: chuck the shaft up in a cordless drill and use it like a lathe to spin it while you use a strip of emery cloth to shine it up)...you can also install it in the body and use a cordless drill with a 1/2" chuck to rotate the shaft for a few hundred revs to loosen it up and get your new grease/lube spread in the bore.

Since you have a truck I would try the assembly as-is (assuming the vacc. can works...) and set at 10-12 BTDC. If you have increased the compression and power of the slant you can rotate the long loop heavy spring post toward it's weight so the heavy spring comes on late and allows more advance earlier....If you need a quicker advance replace the light spring with a lighter spring and see how things are (and adjust the heavy spring to limit the final amount of advance...)

Note though: if you had a car with increased performance...you can swap out the heavy looped spring with another similar spring to the light spring, you get a linear advance that will provide an even advance until the stops hit the end of the governor around 23-2500 rpm...I use that kind of curve in my Hpak car and it works fine 9-12:1 SCR with the correct rear gearing and transmission combination and have not changed it yet (although I did dial it to 14BTDC for the 9.2, 10.3:1 SCR builds, I backed it off to 12BTDC in the 12:1 motor and still ran 15's at the track with no rattle).

The reason for the "desire" for this particular dizzy is the short slot allowing for more initial to light the fire earlier and building cylinder pressure faster (especially in stock cars), that being said each build has some personality and may not like the full 12 inital+18 mechanical advance of this combo ...so dialing it in becomes key and maybe backing it off to 8-10 BTDC might prove to work better-especially with the 4876/11x can (and you may need to pull back to a new VC-239 vacc. pod so your vacc advance is only 17 degrees for the heavier vehicle).

Look forward to seeing how your clean up and curving goes with your new found performance distributor...



:wink:


-D.Idiot
Author:  Ssg Pohlman [ Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:35 am ]
Post subject: 
I knew DI would have the information needed.

I ordered some springs last night from slant fan anyway just to have the ability to change it a bit.

I just swapped engines so I'm still learning what I have. So far it's a hydro block w mech head and valve train. .040 over w super six bbd (for now, holley in summer time) casting clean up on exhaust and intake, HEI, and no cats (meow). Going to Wveneble house tomorrow so maybe figure out the cam.

What I figure is ill probly just recurve so it maxes out at about 4k rpm as I don't like going over that when I play. For the most part I'm a retiree that don't drive over 55 etc at the age of 31.

Guess I'll wait on springs and do a clean up/ mic and take my time to get it right since the one I have works I've got time.

Thanks DI, I'll keep you posted and just continue here as well so to keep things in one place. I did add new photos in my gallery of the swap btw.
Author:  Ssg Pohlman [ Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well finally got it apart w the drill, great idea btw. Had to file the gear end as it had mushroomed and wouldn't just slide out.
Finally got it out and the base is stamped w the correct numbers as the bottom side shows 9R as you said. So now I'm just going to take my time and clean/rebuild it. Only problem as of now is the wobble is about 5-7 thou :( and is there a plastic bushing or something I didn't see as it crumbled and fell out on mine during disassembly?
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC-08:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/