I'm thinking of installing an electric fuel pump so that I don't have to worry about diaphragm rupture and gas in the oil with the mechanical pump. I've heard horror stories about wash down and ruined engines when this happens during driving...

What are the typical wiring scenarios for an electric fuel pump? Can I tap into the wire for the electric choke or is that a no-no (too much draw)? If people run new circuits, what do they typically do, how much fuse, use a relay of some sore, etc.?

thanks all,

BG

My 2 cents:

Electric fuel pumps have a reputation for being noisy, very annoyingly noisy; also they most likely will need a pressure regulator to play nice with carburetor. In addition to running new circuit to operate pump, you need some sort of fuel pump cut-off device so that it fails off in an accident or broken fuel line, and not pump the tank dry on to the ground.

Keep it simple, continue using the original stile camshaft powered fuel pump. I suspect new stock now have diaphragms compatible with today’s ethanol diluted fuels. I have the same pump that was on my Dart when I purchased it in 2008 a year before country wide 10% ethanol change over. All fuel pumps will leak after many years and miles of use, all soft parts dry rot after a while. The pump on my 82 LeBaron quit after 20 or so years when a pin hole developed in its diaphragm; I could smell fuel, found leak, and replaced it, no big deal.

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67' Dart GT Convertible; the old Chrysler Corp.
82' LeBaron Convertible; the new Chrysler Corp
07' 300 C AWD; Now by Fiat, the old new Chrysler LLC

How many hundreds of thousands of original mechanical fuel pumps functions perfectly well with no maintenance for decades? My vote is just install a new mechanical fuel pump and relax.

Fair enough, so why are there so many posts on this forum regarding membrane rupture and even new pumps having issues? I have to admit, I've not had a problem with mechanical pumps, but it seems there may also be an advantage to electrics, that there is one less thing for the cam to drive (not that it takes much to drive it).

Anyway, I suppose I can weigh the pros and cons.

Nobody have wiring options they've implemented or particularly like?

The posts you see talking about fuel pump diaphragm ruptures are typically posts where the fuel pump at issue is an original unit installed at the factory 30+ years ago. It isn't surprising that a 30 year old mechanical part would fail. It also isn't surprising that modern replacement parts manufactured in China to little or no standards fail. However, if you find a good used original pump, a NOS pump, or a quality aftermarket mechanical pump, it is cheaper, simpler, and more reliable than an electronic fuel pump.

Remember that an electronic fuel pump (a) must not pump a too high of a fuel pressure, (b) would hopefully have some means of adjusting the fuel pressure, (c) must be wired in correctly, (d) must have some kind of automatic shutoff switch to avoid pumping gas when the engine is off but the key is on and to shut off fuel flow in the event of a rollover or accident. Electronic fuel pump get tricky and expensive to install very quickly. Unless you are also installing fuel injection, I just don't see how an electronic fuel pump is worth the cost and effort. After all, electronic fuel pumps can fail too.

I'm sold, I'll stick with my mechy. I use a Carter unit, I assume they're OK. Anyone know if Carter is made in China or US?

I am looking for a fuel pump right now. Have been all day. I tried the SEARCH here but haven't found anything except this thread. I'm sorry but I can't agree with very much of what I'm reading here.

As for hundreds or thou.........sands, excuse me that was hard to get out. I can't even say hundreds of thousands but I typed it with my eyes closed.

30 years with one pump? I'm willing to bet I can give anyone a week and a troup of girl scouts to help him and he can't find that pump. There may be one. May be two. But lets use some common sense and real numbers. I doubt there is anyone to testify to owning the same engine and fuel pump for 30 years.

I think we may be guessing at some things. We might come up with a thread that figures out this problem. Or someone might pop up and tell me where I'm wrong and, more importantly, what kind of fuel pump can I buy that will last 30 years. 10 years. I'd settle for 5.

I've owned the same vehicle for 17 years. Got it in 96 before the gas problem if everyone's dates are correct - I don't really know. My grandfather had it since new and unfortunately didn't keep a record of fuel pumps.

Between 96 and 2001 I replaced the fuel pump twice. Both worked perfectly when new and up until they filled the oil pan up with gas.

That's 1 fuel pump every two years... give or take. The original lasted a year maybe and I don't know how long it was on there before that. Either way, a GENEROUS estimate is a pump every two years.

Then due to circumstances beyond my control the truck was parked for about 10 freekin years. Of course had to install fuel pump #3 very shortly after getting it running. Not sure when that was but there is a thread here somewhere when I was working on the pump. I made a do-dad to relieve pressure that Dan had described and the pump went a few weeks later.

Then I went down the street and bought a tank of that $3.00 per gallon gas. Was $1.75 last time I had bought it. I remember the sticker shock, not having bought gas in 10 years, and how much I sweated all the way home thinking about it getting sucked out of the tank. Also thinking how the truck must have felt sashaying up the road with almost $50 of gas in it for the first time. Add a few more $50s and a $100 and you could have bought the damn thing new.

If it had not been parked for 10 years how many pumps would I have bought? We may never know.


But it's about 2-ish years after pump #3 and I'm looking for pump #4.


I'm looking for a company that advertises something besides "manufactured to meet or exceed OE standards". Standards for what year? I've bought 3 gas caps in the last YEAR. The rubber can't hold up to the ethanol - two locking (has a larger/mobetter seal (lasts about 3 months), and one regular with the flat piece of rubber (lasts about 3 weeks).

I'm looking for a company that tells exactly what type of rubber they use in their pumps. Viton, Buna-N or cut right off the rubber tree.

Sadly, I've only found rebuild parts for my original pump that fit that criteria and I'm so profoundly pissed that I can't find my original pump.

I do mostly agree with what's been said about electric pumps though I don't think they would be all that loud, in a car, installed with some rubber insulators. And they would work great for a long time. I have one mounted on each tank of a later model truck and can barely hear them. You can buy them for about the same price as mechanical for use with a carburetor (4-6 psi with no regulator). You can even tell when they aren't working just by listening! I don't, however, want one on top of my gas tank behind the seat.

Danny

It would be nice if the gas cap and fuel pump makers would tell us what rubber compounds that they use to better tolerate the increased alcohol in current fuels.
There is probably just a very small percentage of folks who would notice the announcement. I doubt that any maker who made that announcement
would see an improvement in their bottom line - and, make no mistake about it, the companies are slaves to their bottom lines!

I googled for about an hour and found very little info on materials. But again, how many folks would notice or care. Maybe more than I am implying.
I certainly would, and I guess Danny would - so, that makes two of us!

BC

_________________
'64 Dart GT convertible, 64 Dart 170 2-door post sedan in faded blue and rust (the Az Dart) & a sixty THREE Dart 170 2-door post sedan in faded blue and rust. (future project)
Early Dart Disorder (EDD) is real, and I've got it!

I just called Federal-Mogul - the company that makes Carter fuel pumps - one of only two that I've found made for the slant six. The other being the Airtex brand.

I've had little luck as mentioned before with either brand. It is possible that I bought my pumps before they changed the way they make them/ claim they make them, but I don't think so.

Federal Mogul claims that Carter pumps have been made with materials that work with 10% ethanol for the last 20 years.

I may try one, but as luck would have it, I did find my original rebuildable pump. Now I have to decide which I want to experiment with or figure how to put an electric pump on it and probably never have to deal with this again.

Just in case I'll post the place for rebuildable pump parts:

http://www.maritimedragracing.com/antiq ... cellar.htm

Danny

My in line electric fuel pmps, mounted to the frame sounded like Godzilla in the trunk. I can still hear the submerged pump, but it is reasonably quiet.

I think it is worth while working out a full system to apply an electric fuel pump. But it will not be simple or cheap. All those things mentioned so far.

General comment: The single most important take away from fooling with this car for 20 years is the original wiring in these cars was not designed to handle modern electronics or electrical needs. When it gets old things get worse. If I were doing this over I would strip ALL old wiring out and start over with Ron Francis, or other even better street rod wiring set up. I don't actually know if Ron Francis is good. I have just seen their ads a lot. I would research it first.

The trouble is, most of us bought these cars first to drive, not as a project. That makes tearing out all wiring FIRST, impractical at best. This makes a gradual upgrade to things electronic difficult. Eventually, sooner or later you hit the wall, and things quit working because of EMI or low voltage.

Sam

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OK, I finally did go with an electric fuel pump. It was a Mr.Gasket inline, not expensive. I did install an emergency cutoff switch, easy to do (cost about $25 from Summit). The pump was very loud at first, 'cause I mounted it directly to the frame, but then I got some really soft rubber mounts from McMaster Carr and it is whisper quiet. I don't have any carpet (my floor is bare metal) or even a back seat right now and I can barely hear it.

If anyone is interested I can share the information and pics of the install. Total cost of materials was about $80, and no more worries of fuel getting into my oil. If it breaks, it'll be as easy to change as the mechanical pump, only two bolts and the hoses on each end....and easier to reach. Those soft rubber mounts were like $13 each, but soooo worth it. They are a little firmer than jello, so they absorb all the vibrations.

BG