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 Post subject: lean issue
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:53 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 35
Location: Oakdale Ca
Car Model:
I still cannot get my truck to run right, while cruising 2000-3000rpm i have a constant and irratic popping in the exhaust and surging issue. I cant figure out why this is happening.

Ive rebuilt the carb twice(found a part that mine didnt have the first time i rebuilt it) and still the same problem persists

My idle is poor, i stumbles and pops out the exhaust, slow rev ups produce and uneven poppy and stumble sound and holding 2k-3k rpms does the same. Ive messed with the timing and it does not change it, ive already done a valve lash adjustment and that also didnt change anything.

If i cover 85% of the mouth of the carb at idle the idle smooths out and i t runs good. If i keep my hand covering the carb and slowly rev up to any rpm its smooth all the way, and holding it at any rpm it stays smooth...

How do i richen the mixture on my carb? Its a carter single barrel and my motor is completely stock... not sure why its running so lean???

Jason

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1967 Dodge D100 2 wheel drive short bed sweptline, 727 3spd auto 225 leaning tower of power


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:12 am 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:06 am
Posts: 295
Location: Clearlake, CA.
Car Model:
Have you got ahold of MSD and asked the why the ballast they recommened causes it to run bad but the factory one runs okay? Or did that not turn out to be the case?

To me it really sounds like a vacuum leak, thats the only thing I can think of that would lean it out real bad and effect the idle so much... There's manifold to head,intake to exhaust "hot box" gasket, EGR gasket (if equipped), carb base gasket, carb body to throttle body gasket, and the air horn/ bowl cover gasket has to be flat and leak free as well... Is there any "play" in the throttle shaft itself? That will cause a lean vacuum leak as well... Also choke pull-off, and vacuum advance pod on the dizzy.

As far as "richening" the mixture, at idle it will be the mixture screw on the fron of the carb. For the rest, it relies on several things and there is no one real way to richen it. Setting the accel pump a little higher wil yield a longer fuel shot, and from there it relys on the main circuit, wich involves

A: making a slight adjustment on the step-up piston, you can lean and richen the overall mixture that way, but from my understandin you want to only make very small adjustments, a tiny turn will yield large results...

B: sourcing out other carters from other vehicles and compare jets and rods, you can use various combinations of jets and rods to yield different results...

Again these will only prove beneficial IF there is absolutely no vacuum leaks, on the carb or below the carb...

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:16 am 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
Car Model:
This sounds like a bad vacuum leak or a low float setting on a Carter carburetor. That is a lean pop from lack of fuel.

Check your inlet make sure the needle and seat aren't fowled with debris blocking flow and reset the float level.
I hope you have down loaded the manuals from the Engine FAQ section and have that carb memorized by now.

If you getting debris in the carb run a better gas filter. The old metal fuel line can rust from the inside or the fuel pump can be full of rust or the lines from your tank. My son recently went through this on his truck on a regular basis until he replaced the lines and fuel pump. The pump collected a lot of rust and kept pumping it up to the carb.

Is the gasket between the carb body and throttle plate good? are those parts warped causing a vacuum leak? Check them on something flat like a sheet of glass or good straight edge. I have had them leak there. Reman carbs may mix and not match these pieces...

Hopefully your vacuum intake tree on runner six is not contributing to a vacuum leak. You might try plugging it until this resolved..

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:52 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 35
Location: Oakdale Ca
Car Model:
Not a vacuum leak, I sprayed the intake, carb, vacuum hoses, dizzy... everything. Ive dealt with vacuum leaks before and this isnt it.

I installed all new intake/exhaust gaskets and the carb is CLEAN, no debris, no clogs, new fuel filter. The intake is already plugged where the rear runner hole is.

The float is set a hair higher than factory setting(helps richen the mixture) Ive already played with the idle screw(also clean and in perfect condition) i also played with the idle air mixture screw on top the carb thats covered by a small metal cap.

My fuel tank is completely clean, and ive gone thru the line from the tank to the carb, all clean and free flowing. New fuel pump(just for kicks)

the carb is in great shape as are the throttle and choke shafts, no play and ive sprayed them with brake clean and carb cleaner with no change in idle.

And yes i could probably rebuild this carb blind folded now lol ive read and searched thru pages of carb rebuilding info and diagrams.

Ill make some step up rod adjustments to see if that helps

Jason

_________________
1967 Dodge D100 2 wheel drive short bed sweptline, 727 3spd auto 225 leaning tower of power


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:32 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:06 am
Posts: 295
Location: Clearlake, CA.
Car Model:
Find another 1bbl to slap on there... There is no way beside the idle mixture screw to get it any richer at idle (unless you start drilling out air bleeds wich is not a good idea at all). Close the throttle blades and it closes off the air flow through the venturis and only allows the vacuum to pull the air and fuel through the idle circuit...

But in your other post trying to figure it out when you were suspecting the ignition system you did claim it to show 18-20" of vacuum... That would suspect me to think that there is no vacuum leak below the carb, but have you checked to see if you are getting that kind of signal with it misfiring, cause it wont be pulling that much vacuum running like crap and sputtering...

If the bowl cover to carb body is warped it will cause a vacuum leak above the blades, and will prevent the vacuum from pulling through idle air bleeds, as well as not allow the engine vacuum to pull the step up piston and rods down into the jets... A leak between the carb body and throttle plate will cause very similar issues and may or may not affect manifold vacuum (besides the fact a poor running engine generally has a weak vacuum signal)...

Some leaks are really hard to trace with the old brake clean spray down, especially a minor one, but even a minor leak will cause serious issues with carburetor operation.

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:34 pm 
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Supercharged
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
Car Model:
Given what you have done....
Quote:
Ill make some step up rod adjustments to see if that helps
The step up rod must be very low and not pulling up out of the jet very much to make it so lean.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:08 pm 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 35
Location: Oakdale Ca
Car Model:
im going to get a longer vacuum hose and run the gauge into my cab to monitor it while driving. hopefully that will help diagnose the issue a bit better.

So i may have found my solution.. or a step towards it. I pulled the metering rod out and sand the tip so it had a smooth point(kind of like theneedles on my motorcycle mikuni carbs) it was a slight adjustment to helping richen my main circuit and so far on my 5mile drive it didnt seem to have any hiccups.

I dont have any other carburetors to choose try so im stuck making this one work lol

Although without the aircleaner(which is a tiny little POS) it still ran a bit lean, so im thinking about putting a tiny thin washer under the screw that holds the step up in place(this would allow for more upwards travel of the metering rod)

So for now it seems to be running "okay" until i go for a 15-20 mile drive i wont be totally satisfied. because ive noticed the problem usually doesnt happen till after the motor is thoroughly warmed up and ive driven a while then the stumbling would start happening and under WOT it would get worse.

Ill post back with details after i make a trip to town... fingers crossed that this is a direction towards a better running motor :?

_________________
1967 Dodge D100 2 wheel drive short bed sweptline, 727 3spd auto 225 leaning tower of power


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:22 pm 
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EFI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:06 am
Posts: 295
Location: Clearlake, CA.
Car Model:
Keeping them crossed for ya buddy! If it made a big difference I think Ill have to tinker with the step up on my 2bbl, It idles fine, starts fine, but has a nasty flat spot that is hard to roll through and pings a bit under heavy load or wide open throttle... Keep us posted :D

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:40 pm 
Offline
4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 35
Location: Oakdale Ca
Car Model:
Okay so i put some miles and driving on this current tune, so far it seems to run a bit healthier, around town is good, no stumbling. idle still doesnt seem healthy to me but not bad.

Although after driving 55-60mph for a minute the popping starts to come back.. its not a consistent popping but an irrattic stumbling.. like its runnning out of fuel. If i roll into the throttle it gets worse BUT ITS NOT AS BAD AS IT WAS BEFORE I PLAYED WITH THE MAIN JET METERING ROD.... so this leaves me to believe im going the right direction. I have some tiny washers of different thickness's that im going to try putting under the step up piston hold down screw, allowing the step up piston to travel up a little higher.

Didnt get a vacuum read yet, going to autozone for some long hose to run into my cab to moniter it on my way to work tonight.

I still feel like even though im slowly getting this issue cleared up... it just doesnt seem right. When i first got the truck the idle and off idle were obviously outa tune, timing was off and the valves were way outa adjustment. After rebuilding the carb the first time is when this issue started happening... but it didnt run bad the entire 20 mile drive to work after the rebuild, it was after work on my way home(about 1/4 of the way home) it started popping and stumbling, my first thought was im running outa fuel since my fuel gauge was almost on E. So i stopped and filled up, but even after a full tank the truck ran like crap the rest of the way home.

As far as another way to search for vacuum leaks what else could i try?? ive literally soaked the intake and carb with carb cleaner and any other spot that has vacuum lines(dizzy and pcv valve) i have no power brakes so no other vacuum lines or places to leak.

I guess i just feel that this motor being stock shouldnt need the carb adjust so much to run properly.... then again maybe the air ways in the carb were so dirty they help richen the mixture till i cleaned it??? IDK... im out of ideas at this point.

Jason
Jason

_________________
1967 Dodge D100 2 wheel drive short bed sweptline, 727 3spd auto 225 leaning tower of power


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:02 pm 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
Car Model:
Well you can always install a 1920 Holley and set the Carter aside for awhile.
I prefer the 1920 over the Carter. It is much simpler and easier to work on, consistent mileage and a one piece body so you can't get odd ball vacuum leaks. I would swap it out in a heart beat! I see lots of stock, non reman ones on eBay. You might be able to snag one locally at your favorite junk yard. Just don't get a reman.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:48 am 
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4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 35
Location: Oakdale Ca
Car Model:
i have one more pickn pull to check out, so far no old vehicles at the few i s been too.

Forgot the vacuum gauge tonight since i was late for work. but dammit it started running like crap again. It seems like around town under 2000rpms it does fine although the idle does change randomly from smooth to being rough and almost sounding like its got a miss. Like tonight when i started it up it ran smooth 1krpms and after 30 seconds it started popping and stmbleing at idle, if i gave it gas it would rev up but it stumbled and popped still.

After cruising at above 2200rpm its starts missing and stumbling and giving it more throttle only makes it worse. My cruise rpms are 2500-2800 and it runs horrible at these rpms......

Not sure if this is related but every night or morning when i start it up and its cold i have ALOT of white smoke/haze coming out of my exhaust... i mean alot.. not thick like antifreeze is burning but its white and it spits moisture out the exhaust tips even after it gets warmed up a bit it will still spit water witha good rev.

Ive smelled the white smoke everytime and it just smells like exhaust, no sweet hint to it at all. I just dont remember my 1965 fury bb 383 ever doing that in the winter. any reason id have so much moisture build up in my exhaust?? PS i know what antifreeze in the exhaust smells like, blown a few HGs in my years of wrenching lol

I cant justify spending too much more money on this motor when i know of a handful of 318s and 360s i can get for cheap, which i personally would rather have a small block than the 225. Right now i cant get better than 11mpgs. I used to get 9mpg with my 383 and it was never tuned right(i was very young and inexperienced) and i drove it like i stole it

Jason

_________________
1967 Dodge D100 2 wheel drive short bed sweptline, 727 3spd auto 225 leaning tower of power


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:13 am 
Offline
EFI Slant 6

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:06 am
Posts: 295
Location: Clearlake, CA.
Car Model:
I do agree on trying to find a holley to try if you can. I hate the Carter 2bbl on mine to. Always needs adjustments, and always having little issues. Everyone seems to do quite well with the Holleys, I just wish I could slap a nice Holley 2bbl on mine without an adapter but its not gonna happen.

_________________
"if it aint broke, fix it till it is"
78 Plymouth Volare Super Six wagon
89 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16v
92 Chevrolet K1500 5.7
98 Ford Escort ZX2 zetech


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:44 am 
Offline
Supercharged
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:05 pm
Posts: 3767
Location: Black Diamond, WA
Car Model:
oldskoolracer,

You can always go with a Holley 2280 which is a BBD replacement. Just bolt it on.......you can but them new off eBay.

Jason,

I wouldn't give up on your truck because of a simple carb problem. Try the Holley 1920 first!

As far as the condensation out the tail pipe goes, yes my car and all others are producing a lot more this time of year unless you keep it in a garage. If I pop the hood on my 74 it looks like a rain storm hit....lots of condensation. Same for inside the exhaust pipe.

_________________
Aggressive Ted

http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger


74 Swinger, 9.5 comp 254/.435 lift cam, 904, ram air, electric fans, 2.5" HP2 & FM70 ex, 1920 Holley#56jet, 2.76 8 3/4 Sure-Grip, 26" tires, 25+MPG


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:26 pm 
Offline
4 BBL ''Hyper-Pak''

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 35
Location: Oakdale Ca
Car Model:
Ill do some searching on ebay for the holley, i guess im just not convinced it my carb..... Ive deduced that richening the mixture makes it run smoother and the popping goes away. But part of me wants to figure out how it ran fine while at driving rpms before the tune up and rebuilt carb.

I havent given up on the truck by any means, IMO if im going to spend another $300 i may as well buy a small block. I know of a few in my area, not to mention my my picknppull sells motors for $170 complete. But if i can manage to get a holley for a decent price and get atleast 18mpg thats really my goal. I know its possible cause i know of other sweptline short beds with 318s getting mid teens for mileage.

Jason

_________________
1967 Dodge D100 2 wheel drive short bed sweptline, 727 3spd auto 225 leaning tower of power


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:27 pm 
Offline
Turbo EFI

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:19 pm
Posts: 1603
Car Model:
Msd coil? I had 2 brand new msd coils fail. Start good idle good around town good. Get on highway for 4 or 5 miles , Coil gets hot and engine begins to miss.


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