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Did I get the rite NGK ZFR5N spark plugs ?
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53616		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Xproject187 [ Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Did I get the rite NGK ZFR5N spark plugs ?
Hey guys I been reading about NGK's ZFR5N's as a replacement plug for the 225. So I went out & got some,but I'm concerned that I may have gotten the wrong type. My Sons first car is a 74 Swinger Special, it's a stock set-up nothing racy, but I wanna try & make it run correctly. Anyway, I bought him a set of the NGK V-Powered "ZFR5N's" however, I noticed they look different than the ones I've seen pictures of & in use by other members. Plus, there's a four digit code "3459" on em. So anyway, I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if I got the rite plugs before we install em ?
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q240 ... 8556fa.jpg
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Yep
3459 is the correct stock number for the ZFR5N for the 1960-1974 head, remove the crush ring and install.

-D.Idiot
Author:  Danarchy [ Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Alot of Threads about Spark Plugs lately! I have been using the NGK ZFR5N in my 1964 Dart with Great results (Runs Smooth & Easy Starting).
I am working on the HEI conversion next, where I understand you can widen the cap to .040?
Author:  slantvaliant [ Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
They look different from the picture on the box. The business end is like this:

Image
Author:  SlantSteve [ Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yep,mine look like that.....they have a long nose,like mine :oops:
Author:  Xproject187 [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks DusterIdiot
The reason I asked about the plugs is because I too have read alota posts regarding the "NGK ZFR5N". But no where do I recall any mention of its 4 digit stock number. So when I got em home & saw it(3459), I started to trip. Because I do recall reading that there are 3 types of ZFR5N(Iridium,Platinum & Nickel) so I was concerned that maybe I'd gotten the wrong type. But thanks to Slantvaliants picture, I can clearly see that they're thee exact same type as the ones I bought.
@DusterIdiot:
Yeah I read about removing that "Crush-Ring" prior to install because of the aluminium drool tubes,but thanks Dude.
@ Danarchy:
Yeah,I seem to recall reading in an old PDF document that some Darts should be set at .060 but I don't recall which Darts & please don't make me go find it,LOL.
@ Slantvaliant & SlantSteve:
Yeah I'm diggin that long Reach & those Non-Recessed electrodes too.
For future reference:
What's happened is, my Son will remove & clean his current Champion Spark Plugs & his car runs pretty darn good,but within 3 or 4 days it's mis-firing again. So he'll remove the plugs again & we can see that oil has leaked back onto his Ground-Straps & Electrodes of Spark Plugs number 1, 2 & 6,but it isn't smoking either. I knew something wasn't rite,so I started Googling it & after reading a write up which focused on thee "Odd Design"of Mopars 6 Cylnder Heads that were in use between 1960-74. I came to this forum which is dedicated specificlly to that series of engines & the conclusion that the little known issue concerning the drool tubes was the most likely culprit.
Thanks guys !
Author:  olafla [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Welcome to the forum, Xproject187.
Quote:
I came to this forum which is dedicated specificlly to that series of engines...
You came to the right place! :D I don't think you'll find any SL6 issues which are not debated here. You should also be aware of the articles reachable from the 'home' page, and the sticky Frequently Asked Question (FAQ) threads in the beginning of each section.

We have a reasonably strong search function, but if you want to expand or deepen your queries, see this thread: TRICKS to using the Search Feature?

Olaf
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  More likely...
Quote:
the conclusion that the little known issue concerning the drool tubes was the most likely culprit
The drool tubes will leak oil down the side of the block if the gaskets are hard and need to be replaced. Most likely you will get oil into the chamber and on the plugs if the valve guides are a little loose (high miles) and the valve stem seals are stiff/cooked on the intake sides allowing oil to be sucked into the chamber.

-D.Idiot
Author:  Xproject187 [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More likely...
Quote:
The drool tubes will leak oil down the side of the block if the gaskets are hard and need to be replaced. Most likely you will get oil into the chamber and on the plugs if the valve guides are a little loose (high miles) and the valve stem seals are stiff/cooked on the intake sides allowing oil to be sucked into the chamber.
-D.Idiot
@ DusterIdiot:
When I see oil on a Spark Plug,my first thought is Valve Guides(just like anyone would). However, after I read Allpars"Spark Plug Tube Seal Writeup". I was left with thee impression that 20-40 year old Tube-Seals would cause drooling directly into the combustion chamber & it'd be even more likely to occur when"Crush-Rings" are installed.
However,after reading your last post(with deep consideration I might add). I have to admit that I must have misunderstood Allpars write-up & as such I'm left with one question(correct me if I'm wrong & please forgive my naivety). But basically your saying, worn,cracked Tube Seals won't cause oil to accumulate on the Ground Straps. Correct ?
Thanks for the consideration/direction you've shown concerning my questions,you've been more than professional & I thank you.
Bill K
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Err...
Quote:
But basically your saying, worn,cracked Tube Seals won't cause oil to accumulate on the Ground Straps. Correct ?
Ahem...here's where mechanical function reign...where is the tube seal? It's a rubber ring gasket at the head where the tube is inserted into the casting...Where is the combustion chamber seal? It's at the threads and mating surface at the end of the tube...when you apply torque to the tighten the spark plug (30 ft/lbs) this should take up any tolerance between the plug flange and head, leaving the poor drool tube squished between the plug flange and head....If the tubes are worn (I have some with oval holes where the plugs go through....), then they could be that source, but if everything else is in good shape and the torque is correct, how is it going to get in there (if there is enough leak for the oil to wick into the chamber, there is enough room to allow compression out that leak as well).

Technically if your engine is old you need to replace the seals regardless, toss the crush rings, and check your tubes for wear and replace (just tell the local Dodge dealer you have a 426 hemi and need new tubes for it, but only 6...LOL).

I think allpar is an ok resource, there are some typos (I like the title of that article that says before 1963 and after 1974...there are no crush rings on plugs for heads from the 1975-1987 model years, so why mention it?...of course these guys think a shorty intake is the new hyperpak too... talk to doc long enough and you can get long ram fever...). Dan Stern does have a lot of good and pertinent information
(technical/historic/Factory/etc...)

Set the gap at .040 and call it good for now.

-D.Idiot
Author:  Xproject187 [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Err...
Quote:
Technically if your engine is old you need to replace the seals regardless. Toss the crush rings, set the gap at .040 and call it good for now.
Ok, that's what I'll do then.
Author:  SlantSteve [ Fri Oct 25, 2013 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
If your oiling/ fouling plugs make sure your ignition system is up to scratch,HEI conversion is money well spent,its not wasted on a tired engine since you can easily swap it onto a fresh engine if that's on the cards. The exposed electrodes on the ZFRN plugs probably won't help oil fouling that much,in fact it's possible they may be a tad worse for oiling up,but give them a go,but they won't help if the ignition system is tired. If you suspect valve stem seals are gone you can change them without pulling the head,it may help with the problem. I have a 66 Valiant ( my folks actually) the engine was "rebuilt" by some self proclaimed Mopar gurus over here in Australia while I was living interstate,its done minimal miles but was oiling #1 at idle,so far I found the valve stems had exhaust seals on the intake,none fitted to exhaust,lash was set to exhaust specs on the intake,intake specs on the exhaust,so fixed that,the coil was wired incorrectly,pos terminal to points,power to neg terminal,it suddenly died so fitted HEI to it,also fitted ZFR plugs,but am back to stock plugs at the moment,they seem to be better for the advance curve I have at the moment,but will run ZFR plugs in it with the fresh engine. The reason I mention all this that there are quite a few bits and pieces to check without getting too deep into it that may help.
Author:  pishta [ Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  washers needed on OLD heads.
Ill chime in on the pre 63 heads still needing a crush washer. If you look in the pre 63 heads the spark plug threaded hole has NO machined bevel on the opening, just a drilled and tapped hole. 63-74 have a machined bevel at the mouth of the hole, perfect for the taper of the tube and the washerless plug. If you look at the drool tube small end, youll probably notice the 45 taper the end was formed with on a 63-74 while the pre 63 head that takes a crush washer will be flat.
Author:  Xproject187 [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow, that's alot of really good info guys,thanks. I especially like the part where the valve stems can be changed without removing the head(IDKT). Well I can see I got a lot of reading to do(research) but I wanted to take a min & thank you guys for the insight. I think I might make a youtube video of my Sons /6 while it's running so you guys can hear & see what we are dealing with. One thing I've noticed is his Swinger always seems to smooth out after it's warmed up. In fact it really isn't running all that bad. However I do got his timing advanced all the way up & every few days I gotta pull the plugs out & clean the black carbon off of em. Man they really get black too. I should take a pic or a video of em so you guys can see em. Anyway thanks again.
Author:  wjajr [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
One thing I've noticed is his Swinger always seems to smooth out after it's warmed up. In fact it really isn't running all that bad. However I do got his timing advanced all the way up & every few days I gotta pull the plugs out & clean the black carbon off of em. Man they really get black too.
Carboned up plugs, and rough running after a cold start indicate a rich condition that can be caused by several problems.

Does the exhaust only stink until engine fully warms up?

Does exhaust stink all the time?

Stink = rich mixture

Make sure the choke is fully pulling off, if equipped be sure the vacuum actuated choke pull off is working; it needs to hold a vacuum and crack open choke butter fly about 1/4 inch once engine starts. Check by attaching a length of vacuum hose, and sucking on it to retract diaphragm, and holds vacuum.

Make sure choke butter fly is fully opening in a timely manner as engine warms; this takes only a few minutes.

Check for high fuel level in carburetor bowl.

Check idle mixture screw adjustment.

Is this engine equipped with an EGR system?

I'm fishing here...
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