Slant Six Forum
https://slantsix.org/forum/

ARP rod bolt installation
https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53699		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  ARP rod bolt installation
Since I had a catystrophic rod failure failure in my car I figured I might as well start a post on the proper way to install the ARP bolts. It may save someone else from making a mistake like I apparently did.

From Scott Marshall:
Quote:
Rick, removing and replacing rod bolts, even stock ones require you to recondition the rods, it upsets the housing bore and distorts it to the point that it more times than not makes it out of round. I have reconditioned hundreds of sets and believe me, I have searched for a shortcut when swapping bolts, even with new rods and it just isn't possible. ARP bolts also don't torque to stock specs, they have a higher torque value because they are of a much higher quality steel than the stock rod bolts. So if anything, you undertorqued them and didn't get adequate stretch on the bolts, along with out of round housing bores, this was the likely cause of the failure. Unless you checked the bearing clearances with a dial bore gage, you didn't catch that the bearing clearances were out of round and close to zero around the cap/rod parting lines.

This should be a sticky, because when using any replacement engine fasteners, it is an absolute requirement to resize or recondition the blocks(when using main studs or bolts) and rods, and even switching from head studs to bolts if torque plate honing the block when using them and to also be aware that stock specs are only for stock components.
#1- If you install new bolts of any kind, you need to re-size the rods. Correct?

#2 - What is the proper procedure for installing the new bolts in the rods?

#3 - What are the proper torque specs for the connecting rods with ARP bolts? For that matter What are the torque specs with ARP Studs on the main bearings, and on the head studs.

#4 - Since I have 5 rods left that have rod bolts in them, that were not re-sized, can they be done with the pistons on the rods. They are pressed fit pins

Thanks to everyone for your help,

Rick
Author:  Turbo Toad [ Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:10 am ]
Post subject: 
As far as adding studs to your rods I'm doing a set of 198 rods for my new turbo motor and I had some issues with the arp studs there's a small lip on the back side of the studs that hit the edge ssurface on the rod and toe the studs outward. I had to lightly hit the edge with a bench grinder. I just dropped the studs back off to the machinist yesterday but i haven't heard anything so they must of worked. There is no resizing of he stud holes needed they just press in and out.

Rick I miss read your wanted post I thought you needed a piston I don't have any extra rods

Aaron
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Rick and others, an answer to your questions in the order you asked them:

1) Yes, if not, it is strongly advisable to have a machine shop check the housing bore to confirm they are round and have no taper. Any imperfection in the housing bore is transferred and magnified to the bearings inside diameter(bearing clearance).

2) Many guys pound them out with a hammer...NO NO! If your doing it at home and have a vice, then put a couple of pieces of wood against the jaws, and you can gently tap against the threaded end(with a nut run on a couple of threads)with a piece of wood against the nut. Or you can press them out if you have a small bottle jack and a press stand. A press being the preferred method, especially to re-install them.

3) Torque specs and instructions are supposed to come with all their fasteners, but you can get them off of their website, or just call them if your uncertain. A stud and a bolt torque entirely different, fine thread vs. coarse thread, so its important to machine a block or rods with the fasteners they are going to be installed in the engine with.

4) Its possible that the remaining rod bolts can still be salvaged, a machine shop will need to torque them a couple of times and check to make sure they repeat how much they are supposed to stretch. The stretch values are also on the ARP website. Stretch is actually the preferred method of tightening them, but since many people don't have a way to do this accurately, it is typically not done by the average guy.

5) Yes, a machine shop can still resize them with the pistons on the rods, many don't like to, it is a little more awkward to hold them. They might also try to recommend you R&R them because the honing oil might get into the wrist pin bores, but I used to take a piston bag and put over the pistons if I needed to keep them dry.

Hope this helps.
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Link is the installation instructions for the rod bolts.
http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/142-6001.pdf

And for head studs
http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/142-4001.pdf

And for main studs
http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/142-5401.pdf

Quote:
Torque specs and instructions are supposed to come with all their fasteners
I bought mine on line and did not get an instruction sheet or else I overlooked it.
Rick
Author:  bmimken [ Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Excellent thread!! I am learning so much. Almost to the point of being fearful to attempt my own engine rebuild...

Brian
Author:  CNC-Dude [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Brian, nothing to be afraid of. Many guys here can help you with anything you need to know. Also, any manufacturer will always be eager to help you with any info you need to make using their product a success for you. They have a lot to gain by ensuring the use of their products is an enjoyable experience for you, so don't every be afraid or timid to pick up the phone and call them if you have any concerns or questions about how to use a part if your uncertain and can't find an answer here.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  It's...
Quote:
I bought mine on line and did not get an instruction sheet or else I overlooked it.
They are folded up to the size of a matchbook and placed in the shrink wrap of the packaging behind the bolts...if your machinist opens the package to install the rod bolts they usually drop out on the floor and since they are folded so the blank side is out, they get mistaken for a misc. piece of paper and thrown out... :cry: (The head stud instructions are with the lube pouch in the package at the top of the box...but I use Doc's instructions for tightening for best performance...)

-D.Idiot
Author:  Rick Covalt [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject: 
At what power level / RPM do ARP rod boltss become a necessity? I know at my RPM levels they were probably the right thing to do, but when I put a motor together for my truck I highly doubt I will spend the money for bolts & resizing. I will just keep the RPM's down in the 5-5500 range and call it a day. Is that a bad idea?

I guess I am just talking out loud or mumbling! :lol: But even on a good day I was not making over 225 HP. If I would have just left in stock bolts, I would probably still be driving the car instead of looking at its internals through a big hole.

So what is a good guideline on their use.

Thanks, Rick
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Replace...
My machinists has 2 rules:

1) If it's a regasket/rering job and the bolt doesn't just slide/fall out of the hole you can reuse the rod bolts...if the rod bolt fell out when you removed the cap it's done for.

2) If it's a full rebuild, it's best to get new bolts as it will be one less thing that will come apart after being 40 years old and lots of miles on it. (He's had a few customers get 'cheap' and had the block window because a rod bolt let go...most were other brand V-8's though...).

I use new ARP bolts in all my builds low compression or high rpm/race application.

-D.Idiot
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC-07:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
https://www.phpbb.com/