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 Post subject: Fuel delivery problem?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:33 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:42 am
Posts: 58
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Car Model:
I hadn't posted in a while because I've been too busy enjoying the rebuilt motor in my Belvedere... until now. I'm having what I believe to be a fuel delivery problem when the car sits overnight or longer. It takes 10 to 12 seconds of turning over the engine (not continuously, I don't want to fry it) before it lets out a spudder and immediately fires up. After that, it runs flawlessly. I originally noticed that the clear fuel filter was nearly empty before starting it after sitting for a while. I thought that it could be the fuel pump allowing fuel to return to the gas tank so I changed it and the problem remains. What do y'all think?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:47 am 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Tustin, CA
Car Model: 1965 Barracuda 'S' auto
Is the carb flooded in the morning? Strong gas smell? On a 1920, there may be a gasket on the back of the economizer valve (or whatever is under the fuel level) that can go bad and leak raw fuel into the intake but I could be wrong. Hows your oil smell? Gas in oil is a clear sign of a leaking carb. Maybe after your next cruise, pinch off the soft fuel line at the carb with a clip or small vise grips so it cant return to the pump. IF the car starts right up the next time, you have a drain back issue. They sell inline fuel one way check valves (my old B2000 or carbed Ford courier has one) that just go in the fuel line, and prevent the gas fom siphoning back into the lower tank. might just be simple like that. If it doesnt start right up, then you are losing fuel bowl fuel out the "other" end. A small Facet style $25 electric pump can be a great primer pump for weekend cars and the vacuum pump will pull right through it when its turned off.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:27 pm 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:42 am
Posts: 58
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Car Model:
I'm pretty sure that's it's not flooding. I should have added that it fires for a second or two when first turning the key before taking a long time to start.... as though it's running on what's in the bowl. Also, the fuel filter is empty.

I was concerned about gas in the oil when I originally though that the fuel pump was the culprit but it looks fine and doesn't smell of gasoline.

Pinching off the fuel line is a good idea. I'll try it out. However, if gas is running back into the tank, I'd really like to know why. It used to immediately fire up regardless of the temperature or the amount of time it had been sitting. It's possible that there can be a leak in the line between the engine and tank but I don't see fuel leaking out anywhere.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:45 pm 
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Turbo Slant 6

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:39 am
Posts: 519
Location: Australia
Car Model:
It's pretty hard for fuel to drain back to the tank,there are 2 check valves in the pump that prevent that happening,as long as the pump is working fine and holding pressure with the engine shut down,the valves are doing their job. I had exactly the same prob with a BBD ,fuel seems to evaporate when standing for a few days and longer than normal cranking is needed to pump fuel up to the carb before the engine can fire.I have been told the float bowl volume in a BBD is pretty small which makes it worse,not sure if the 1920 volume is bigger,but it appears so. Listed below is my fix,nit sure if its applicable to your specific prob but food for thought anyway!
The idea of a primer pump is very good,run it on a timer relay so it runs for a few seconds when you turn the key to run position. The quality of fuel is a big issue,here in Australia I found the higher octane grades tend to stay in the carb with less evaporation. You can do the fuel line mod if you like,didn't help a single thing in my case,but what I did do was place the filter over the valve cover,higher than the carb inlet,what this tends to do is as fuel evaporates out of the carb the extra fuel in the filter drains into the carb,it acts like a mini reservoir. I also made a phenolic heat shield for the carb like agressive teds idea,it keeps the fuel temps down so less evaporation as well...all this gives me enough extra time between starts so that I don't have a issue with hard starts. Cheers!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:56 pm 
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EFI Slant 6
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:00 pm
Posts: 345
Location: Tustin, CA
Car Model: 1965 Barracuda 'S' auto
Well, the way a fuel pump works is based in 2 check valves, one in each direction. Most of the ones i remember seeing were out of carter strip style pumps that had the bolt together style. It had 2 intake and one discharge valves pressed into the body, they were like rubber flaps over a round seat and one came out of the body, we pushed it back in its little cavity in and it worked fine, the output port was the anti drainback valve as it would not let fuel back into the pump due to the flap sealing with the carb side fuel pressure keeping it closed. If you can blow into the output side, your check valve is bad.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:30 am 
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3 Deuce Weber

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:42 am
Posts: 58
Location: Spartanburg, SC
Car Model:
I'll check the pump but it would be usual for the new one to have the same issues as the old one.

To make this problem more complicated, my car started firing up the way it's suppose to during the week. As soon as I hit the key, it fired right up...even after sitting for a cold night. It did this for a few days and then went back to taking a long time to start.

So I'm thinking it's a problem separate from the pump...maybe. Perhaps the new pump may have temporally helped the issue. I don'tunderstand why the problem would be unaffected by the new pump, disappear and then return.

I'm trying to figure out some common factors. The temperature has been the same the last week. I'm going to take note of the fuel level to see if that's a factor.

Other than checking the pump and the float bowl, any other suggestions for things to check?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:48 am 
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Turbo EFI
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Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:57 am
Posts: 1566
Location: Oslo, Norway
Car Model:
Heat! To me it sounds like a classic fuel evaporation problem caused by heat. Because the SL6 intake and exhaust manifolds are bolted together, you have a considerable amount of heat building up after shutdown, and that will make the fuel in the carburetor boil, evaporate and disappear! Unless you already have done it, rerouting the fuel line and installing a heat shield below the carb may solve your problem, if it is fuel related.
You could also test you ignition system's connections and, if availble, try another coil to eliminate that as a problem source. Do you have a stock ingnition system, or have you made the HEI conversion?

You may want to peruse the thread Fuel Line Mod discussion.

For good pics, take a look at Aggressive Ted's solution: http://cid-32f1e50ddb40a03c.photos.live ... %20Swinger

Olaf

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