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| Trying to Install a Rollmaster CS5300 https://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53851 |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Trying to Install a Rollmaster CS5300 |
I'm replacing a sorely stretched time chain. I'm trying to set the crankshaft sprocket in position, but I cannot push it completely down. It is between 1/2 to 1 mm shallower than the camshaft gear, so the chain is tight and looks like slightly misaligned. I even peeled some threads in one balancer bolt trying to push the sprocket in position (I hope I did not damage the crankshaft threads). I did not preheat the sprocket. Any recommendations/procedure on how to properly install it? Do the single chain gears have such a tight tolerance? Thanks for any help! |
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| Author: | DadTruck [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: preheat the sprocket
about 20 minutes in a toaster oven set on 500 works for me, flip the gear over to expose both sides to the heating element, remember the heat needs to penetrate the full thickness of the gear, not just the outer skin.have the oven right at the engine, so you can work quickly, have a pipe that fits over the snout of the crank handy and a hammer to be able to give the gear a pop it it hangs up shy of where it needs to be,,, but before all that, be sure the gear bore ID and inner edge (inside radius) and the crank snout, keyway and gear land are free of burrs, nicks. The gear should side on the snout of the crank up to the gear land area, which is about the width of the gear,, with hand pressure, prior to being heated if the gear is shy of where it needs to be, it is possible that it has rolled up a burr or is stuck on a piece of debris,, decision time, either get a bigger hammer and drive it home or pull it off and start again. |
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| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Yep... |
Quote: about 20 minutes in a toaster oven set on 500 works for me, flip the gear over to expose both sides to the heating element, remember the heat needs to penetrate the full thickness of the gear, not just the outer skin.
About 5 minutes with a propane or MAPP gas torch will do it as well (and also works if you need to get it back off the crank to re-index it...).That's the only real issue with these setups is the crank sprocket is a bit too tight and need to be rehoned a little. -D.Idiot |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The JP sets have the same issues that you speak of. I had to trim the back side of the gear .060 to get proper line up with the cam gear. I also worked the inside of the gear with some fine emory cloth wrapped around a large socket. I kept doing this until I could warm the gear with a torch for just a minute and it would slide on. It was removed to set cam timing 2 times and worked well. Rick |
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| Author: | robertob [ Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: The JP sets have the same issues that you speak of. I had to trim the back side of the gear .060 to get proper line up with the cam gear. I also worked the inside of the gear with some fine emory cloth wrapped around a large socket. I kept doing this until I could warm the gear with a torch for just a minute and it would slide on. It was removed to set cam timing 2 times and worked well.
I had to do both of the above things as well. However in my case, the misalignment was .045. So I had .045 taken off the back, and the inside honed by .002 for a .000 push fit. Out of the box it was a -.002 press fit, which is way too tight.
Rick |
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| Author: | Charrlie_S [ Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Quote: Quote: The JP sets have the same issues that you speak of. I had to trim the back side of the gear .060 to get proper line up with the cam gear. I also worked the inside of the gear with some fine emory cloth wrapped around a large socket. I kept doing this until I could warm the gear with a torch for just a minute and it would slide on. It was removed to set cam timing 2 times and worked well.
I had to do both of the above things as well. However in my case, the misalignment was .045. So I had .045 taken off the back, and the inside honed by .002 for a .000 push fit. Out of the box it was a -.002 press fit, which is way too tight.Rick |
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| Author: | robertob [ Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The bore honing is more or less optional - you can leave them as-is but the press fit is a little too tight. The way mine is set up I can use a prybar and pop it right off for timing changes. That's pretty standard engine building stuff IMHO, tolerances being what they are. The alignment issue is a bigger one. I emailed the manufacturer and I could never make my numbers match theirs - there measurements are based off the recess in the back of the cam gear and I couldn't figure them out. In the end I just had the machinist whack some off the back. |
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| Author: | Rick Covalt [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
This thread explains a bit about what is going on. The timing set are not to blame for the alignment issue, since they are the same on stock , double roller and JP sets as verified by several different people. JP did get right back to me with a reply too. http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... c&start=30[/quote] |
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| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ouch... |
Quote: The way mine is set up I can use a prybar and pop it right off for timing changes.
I use a puller and reheat the gear, using a prybar can trash the thrust bearing, and for us clutch loving guys less crank walk is much more desired).That's pretty standard engine building stuff IMHO, tolerances being what they are. -D.Idiot |
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| Author: | robertob [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ouch... |
Quote: Quote: The way mine is set up I can use a prybar and pop it right off for timing changes.
I use a puller and reheat the gear, using a prybar can trash the thrust bearing, and for us clutch loving guys less crank walk is much more desired).That's pretty standard engine building stuff IMHO, tolerances being what they are. -D.Idiot |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ok, thanks everybody. An update: I took the sprocket out: did little damage in the crankshaft and did more damage in the sprocket. As the sprocket has multiple slots for degreeing the cam, it bited the crankshaft when I installed it cold, and the columns between the slots deformed. I deburred the crankshaft, ordered another CS3500. I also took the depth dimensions on the old and new crankshaft and camshaft sprockets (the older was CompCams) and the crankshaft ones are dead one; the Rolemaster camshaft sprocket was 0.02- 0.03 deeper than the CompCams (with my imprecise tools). When installed it, the camshaft side was deeper that the crankshaft one for like 0.06. From the manual, the camshaft sits in an aluminum sprocket hub, and the oil pump should sit the camshaft in place during operation. Is possible that the camshaft hub eroded with time?. I'll have the back of the crankshaft sprocket trimmed 0.06. I still want to go with the Rollemaster because the chain play is much smaller than the other. I'll keep you posted |
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| Author: | cpslntdchrg [ Sun May 25, 2014 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hey, I did not update the tread. I installed it, so far so good. I had some problems with timing afterwards (could not reduce it to 0 TDC), so I had to remove the distributor, and relocate the timing tab. After that I was able to get the proper timing, and is much better/smoother. Still there is some sputtering when coasting, but that might be something else. Thanks for the help!. |
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| Author: | DusterIdiot [ Sun May 25, 2014 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | That's... |
Quote: Still there is some sputtering when coasting
That's lean out by the carburator under load with the throttle plates in an almost closed condition...a little more fuel is needed (either 1/4 idle, or one jet up if the throttle is still above the transition slots)...
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