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what can I do...?
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Author:  oldskoolracer [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  what can I do...?
Still having issues with this slant of mine, I guess a good place to start is a little info on the engine and the car it is in so here it goes:

1978 Volare wagon, factory super six, a904, and 8.25" w/ highway gears out in back. Engine and trans have less than 10k on them both. Its basically all stock except a K+N air filter, I switched to HEI, got rid of the vac amplifier, removed and blocked the EGR. Running NGK UR5 plugs, BLUE STREAK dist cap and rotor, and Standard brand wires. Carter BBD is a reman I just recently put on, distributor is new, all rubber components under the hood are new, and have the the fuel line mod on it with the rubber hose instead of steel line. Valves are set at .012 in and .022 exh, no cat, new muffler and 2.25" exhaust all the way.

As of right now I have no idea what the timing or air/fuel ratio is exactly, its all just been tuned by ear to the point that it runs pretty good. It idles perfect without a twitch even if I bring it as low as 500 rpm, the issue is cruising and accelerating. Its is waaay worse when it is cold out but does it all the time, it just starts hesitating and stumbling, I can feather the throttle through it and keep it running but it is very annoying at this point. It will get up and go if you go wide open on it, just does not like part throttle. Pulls about 20" of vacuum, heavy shot from the accelerator pump, runs on 91 pump gas all the time, starts fast and easy at all temps.

Sorry for the long write up, just want as much info out to you guys as I can get and I am open to any suggestions you may have. I am lost on what to do, maybe some tips on what order to adjust idle speed, idle mixture, and timing or will that not even affect the part throttle performance? Thanks in advance for any help and info I can get.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tuning by ear isn't the best way to do it, but I understand you work with what you have. You need to get at least a timing gun and figure out what your base timing is.

All remanufactured carburetors are suspect. If I were you I would disassemble the carburetor entirely and verify that all gaskets are correct and that all internal and external settings are correct. Metering rods, float level, choke linkage, etc.... Also, you say you have a reman distributor. The distributor and vacuum advance curve is unknown on this unit. You will need to map out the mechanical and vacuum advance curves to get some idea of what the distributor is doing.

Your slant should run fine on 87 octane. It doesn't need any higher octane and you are wasting money buying it.
Author:  oldskoolracer [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I opened the carb before putting it on, set the float level and made sure check balls were in the right spot, made sure there was no contaminants in it because I have heard horror stories, set the step-up piston, float, and accel pump according to the instructions from a hygrade rebuild kit from the original carb. What does alarm me is the small wire sping around the step-up piston is gone, but the issue has been the same with the old carb that had it in there still.

Ill borrow a timing light and see where its at, and just to clarify, it should be about 10* btdc with-out the vacuum advance connected right? I Ill double check the amount of mechanical advance as well. The issue was there with the old dizzy as well wich is why it got replaced...

I know that 91 isnt necessary, I just do just to do it, not really sure why lol.
Author:  Reed [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I opened the carb before putting it on, set the float level and made sure check balls were in the right spot, made sure there was no contaminants in it because I have heard horror stories, set the step-up piston, float, and accel pump according to the instructions from a hygrade rebuild kit from the original carb. What does alarm me is the small wire sping around the step-up piston is gone, but the issue has been the same with the old carb that had it in there still.

Ill borrow a timing light and see where its at, and just to clarify, it should be about 10* btdc with-out the vacuum advance connected right? I Ill double check the amount of mechanical advance as well. The issue was there with the old dizzy as well wich is why it got replaced...

I know that 91 isnt necessary, I just do just to do it, not really sure why lol.
TO find out your timing, look at the green and white emissions stick on the bottom of the hood, on the radiator support, or on one of the inner fender wells. I believe Volares with Super Sixes were usually 10-12 BTDC.

Are you sure you are running a slant six BBD and not a 318 BBD? A 318 BD on a slant without some modification will not have the choke open all the way which will cause driveability issues.
Author:  DusterIdiot [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Yikes!!!!
Quote:
Ill borrow a timing light and see where its at, and just to clarify, it should be about 10* btdc with-out the vacuum advance connected right? I Ill double check the amount of mechanical advance as well. The issue was there with the old dizzy as well wich is why it got replaced...
You should also get a vacc. gauge so you can see the reading while driving and it will tell you if the midrange is lean (a plug check will also show it if you turn it off and coast to the side of the road for the check).

FYI. What did you get for a "new dizzy"...your old one can be set to those specs, an NOS replacement with the same part number can be set to those specs...A Cardone reman may not have the same guts to use those specs...(if the guts are a 1974...then it should be TDC...)... :shock:

-D.Idiot
Author:  oldskoolracer [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ive heard about reading the vacuum while driving, how would that tell if its lean or not though? Hope thats not a dumb question, just new to that sort of testing.

The dizzy is a cardone reman, the old one was worn pretty bad, had a lot of play in the shaft and the inside was rusted pretty bad inside. I guess getting irritated and buying parts to throw at it wasnt the best idea! :shock:
Author:  Reed [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Ive heard about reading the vacuum while driving, how would that tell if its lean or not though? Hope thats not a dumb question, just new to that sort of testing.

The dizzy is a cardone reman, the old one was worn pretty bad, had a lot of play in the shaft and the inside was rusted pretty bad inside.
If you still have the old distributor you can swap the governor and springs into the reman distributor and keep the old distributor curve.
Author:  oldskoolracer [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
Ive heard about reading the vacuum while driving, how would that tell if its lean or not though? Hope thats not a dumb question, just new to that sort of testing.

The dizzy is a cardone reman, the old one was worn pretty bad, had a lot of play in the shaft and the inside was rusted pretty bad inside.
If you still have the old distributor you can swap the governor and springs into the reman distributor and keep the old distributor curve.
Nope, long gone unfortunately...
Author:  Reed [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bummer.
Author:  oldskoolracer [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well I have to work tomorrow so I wont be tinkering with it till thursday. I dont have a tach in it, or one to hook up so IM kind of stuck on setting the actual engine rpm, but Ill try to find one I can use for the time being maybe.

Just to see if I got this right, its a matter of setting engine rpm, then checking the timing, then adjust the mixture screws..? Whats the best method for setting the idle mixture with out having a way to see the actual air/fuel mixture? Ive read a few different methods and the sticker under the hood says to inject propane but I dont think Im cool with trying that lol. Ive tried setting it to the highest vacuum, and also read to adjust them in until there is a slight stumble then back it out a 1/4 turn...

Again sorry for all the questions and thanks for your time helping me :D
Author:  Ssg Pohlman [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
What does alarm me is the small wire sping around the step-up piston is gone, but the issue has been the same with the old carb that had it in there still. .
Fix me if I'm wrong here and I don't have all the terms but I'll try. Are you referring to the spring that's wrapped around the accelerator pump? That could be a cause of the having to pump it to get up and go? Just thinking outloud.
Author:  oldskoolracer [ Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
What does alarm me is the small wire sping around the step-up piston is gone, but the issue has been the same with the old carb that had it in there still. .
Fix me if I'm wrong here and I don't have all the terms but I'll try. Are you referring to the spring that's wrapped around the accelerator pump? That could be a cause of the having to pump it to get up and go? Just thinking outloud.
No, that ones there, and the one inside the step-up piston is there, its the really fine wire one, wraps around the little hex screw and I assume it keeps the metering rods centered. Ill try to upload a pic of the one Im talking about.
Author:  oldskoolracer [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well just an update, I was able to mess with it a little, made some progress but think I still have to dig deeper...

Let my girlfriend drive it around for a bit to get it up to temp. Disconnected the vacuum to dizzy and plugged it off, check the timing and found it at almost 0* Gave it a little turn until I seen about 10* btdc, idle speed came up quite a bit so I turned the curb-idle speed screw down a bit until the idle came down.
Re-checked the timing and was still at about 10*, I then turned the idle mixture screws in one at a time and an 1/8 turn at a time until the engine started to hesitate, then turned each one back out about a 1/4 turn until idle was smooth again, but really low this time. Turned the curb speed screw back in just a bit.
Test drive yesterday was good, very little hesitation, climbed our hill, and merged onto the highway pretty easily. First drive of this morning (which is usually the time its worse) went great, up the hill without a twitch, actually broke the tires loose when she gave it gas as usual to try and get up it. Also getting on the highway was smooth and had no hesitation or stumbling between gears...
Author:  Aggressive Ted [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
10 degrees of initial timing is nice place to start. Much better than zero.....
I like to go as high as possible on the initial timing and try to keep the mechanical at 20 degrees or less for a 30 degree total before the vacuum can kicks in with its 25 degrees.
Author:  oldskoolracer [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
It definatley seems to like the extra initial timing. I would like to get into a nice recurve but dont feel confident to do it on my own, maybe Ill try to find someone to do it for me or sell me one pre-done.

I couldnt check to see how much mechanical and vacuum advance Im getting by myself so all I was able to check is base timing. I know there has to be a couple extra ponies and mpg's I should be able to squeeze from it.

Id like to get to where oyurs is at someday Ted, really dig what you have going on. I have a long way to go lol :D
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